A couple of questions about rank.

Normally, this would be a workshop thread since it is research for a story, but what I'm looking for requires the special expertise of gunforge/millitaryforge. In the story there is an elite unit (how many soldiers are typically in a unit?) with one leading officer and then his CO. They are a spec ops type group, probably loosely millitary or navy- marines or seals type stuff, but this is going to be set in futuristic space so... not sure really.

How do groupings in the millitary breakdown?
Is it unit > platoon > squad? How many men to each? These guys are definitely higher than Private class, having seen battle on different systems all around and having their own merc like reputation, but the two at the higher end of the group would be the group's commander and then his boss. For refference, the group's commander worked under his boss when he was in the position that the commander was (hard to word that to make sense).

Any kind of jargon and terms you can throw at me along with numbers and suggestions related to the size of the group (I think I had 15 guys in mind, but that is just a guess) would be awesome.

Every branch of the military is different.
But generally (as far as special skills go) you don't find many low ranking types just because it takes a long time to develope the super-duper skills.
BTW the old "movie cliche" about a rough and tumble loose cannon private (who keeps getting busted down for getting into trouble) is a thing of the past. If you're not a certain rank by a certain time limit, you get kicked out these days.

15 people could be a large squad (too small for a platoon but I've seen platoons this small) or for a special mission be called a yeam or task force.

I think calling it a team wouldn't upset the geeks who nitpick every detail in a story.

The nice thing about writing a fiction story is that you can make it however you want.

For the size of the group, tailor it to the task they are going to perform as well as the amount/type of resistance they may encounter. For example, breaking into a secure building to hack a computer and steal information may only require 3 or 4 specialists, while taking out a bridge in a war zone may need a platoon sized force, some to set explosives and the rest to provide cover and security for the operation.

For the ranks, go with the following guideline:

A junior officer will usually command platoon to company size forces.
A company grade (middle ranking) officer will command batallion to brigade sized forces
A field grade officer (senior) will command regiments and larger.

Most spec ops units are small by nature. A junior officer will command a team, and his boss will be a good bit higher up the food chain. For missions only requiring a few guys, either a junior officer or senior non-commissioned officer should be in charge. If you are going with anything bigger than squad sized but less than a platoon, you'll probably have your officer in charge, even though it's a smaller force. Your NCO's will be along on every op- that's their bread and butter.

Hope that helps.

And another twist....in cavalry units (now tanks and helicopters instead of horses) they have Troops ( a company sized unit, not an individual soldier as in "I support the troops") and Squadrons.

FWIW, tank platoons have 16 people. 4 tanks with 4 crewmen each.

Up until the 70s there were 5 tanks per platoon, but with the advent of the Abrams they went from a "heavy" and "light" sections (3 and 2 tanks, respectively) to the "wingman" system with two sections of two tanks.

Don't forget artillery. The redleg company equivalent is called a battery.

Aboard ship, it's broken down by division, department, and if applicable, office.

Then you've got 4 or 5 companies make a Battalian, 2 or 3 Battalians make a Regiment, 2 Regiments make a Brigade - all that depending on the type of unit, of course.

I'm certain you can find a website somewhere with all that info.

SF teams are led by no lower than a Captain.
PSG (or whatever they are called) are Ws.

When you finish SF training you are an E6.

SF is organized differently than normal units. Their are Alpha Teams and Bravo Teams. Size and makeup depend on situation.

Oh and in a normal Infantry Unit:

Rifleman + SAW gunner + Grenadiere + Teamleader = 1 Team

2 Teams + Squad leader (+Driver and TC for mechanized units) = 1 Rifle Squad

3 Rifle Squads + 1 Weapons Squad (2 240 gunners + 2 AGs + Squad Leader) + Platoon Seargant + Platoon Leader = 1 Rifle Platoon.

3 Rifle Platoons + Headquarters (Recon section, Mortars, Snipers, Headquarters staff) + 1SG + CO + XO = 1 Line Company

The Army hasn't fought with infantry or armor units as full regiments since Koream although aviation and cavalry regiments still do. Now we're all in mixed brigades with battallions from different regiments.

Example: 123rd Infantry Brigade has the following units as part of it
1/45 Inf (Mech
2/78 Inf (Mech
3/65 Armor

And just to complicate matters when dealing with combined arms, battalions will often swap companies so that you end up with Battalion Task Forces with three organic compaines and one inorganic company. A Infantry task force will have three infantry companies with a loaned armor company. At the company level the same concept is called a team. So you have a armor heavy team with three tank platoons and a mech platoon.

Heck, can we confuse this guy any more?

Here's a hierarchy of modern armies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_unit#Units.2C_Formations_.26_Commands

Okay. Trying to think back to all the Brigade formations I've been in...

Okay so the 3-2 SBCT (Stryker Brigade Combat Team)


1/23 IN Tomahawks
2/3 IN Sykes (sp?) Regulars
5/20 IN Regulators
296 Field Support Battalion Frontline Support
1/14 Cav Forget what they yell
1/37 Field Artillary Red Lions

And then some 'Brigade Troops Battalion' The Buffaloes

The wiki article helps a bit, and given what I've read so far I'll have to change the scope of what I originally intended, but it actually makes more sense.

So basically, this smaller group about the size of a squad, is just a minor branch of a regiment stationed on the facility as security. Sounds kind of heavy for security, but this station is Death Star sized. So that makes the guy in charge there a Colonel. It may sound wrong if going stictly by the heirarchy, but the guy in charge of the squad will be a Major who also shares responsibility for the company he is in charge of. The rest of his crew is handpicked from his company and also help make up his chain of command. He has a Captain that works under him as his second that manages the company when he takes his squad on special assignment.

Their tech will be CW4, two of the other members will be 1LT and 2LT respectively. The rest will be made up of SFC, SSG, SGTs, CPL, SPCs, and PFCs. There won't be any new meat at the beginning of the story, as the entire company is hand selected of qualified individuals.

A squad is a small group within a larger group. Each squad can act individually (in this instance the 'individual' is the squad as a whole) or as a platoon - all squads working together.

I can't say as I've ever heard of a squad made up of officers - although, I'm certain there are several Special Forces groups made up of such, I just haven't heard of them.

However, I could totally buy a SF story where a squad was made up of officers, depending on their mission.

Thats the idea, they are a special forces type group and each guy is quite specialized in his field. Sort of like the mentors to the regiment, they are the ones sent in to do the jobs only they are capable of. Plus, being so far out in the sticks as they are, they can't rely on the freshies to get things done right so they gotta do it themselves. They are all seasoned war heros, brushed aside by the passage of time. Not really old in certain regards, just from a bygone era of battle with a lot to prove of their continued usefulness.

So, is it set in a Firefly/Traveler/Alternity type universe or Star Trek type universe? Or something completely different?

Sorry, no. Something completely different.

And work center.

For example:
Work center: RE22 (2 Plant Switchgear) -> Division: RE (Reactor Electrical Division) -> Department: Reactor Department -> Ship: USS BigFuckin'AircraftCarrier

US Marine structure:
-Fire team: 3 people + a team leader (probably and E3 (Lance Corporal) or a junior E4 (Corporal))
-Squad: 3 Fire teams + a squad leader (A junior Sergeant, E5)
-Platoon: 3 Squads + the platoon commander (an O1, 2nd Lt) and his platoon sergeant (a senior Sergeant of a Staff Sergeant)
-Company: 3 Platoons + headquarters of a handful of people. You'll have a senior Captain or a Major (for a specialized unit) as CO, the XO (who'll be a rank below the CO, a First Sergeant (who is likely a--wait for it--First Sergeant) and maybe some operations staff--Ops-O, some clerks, etc.

-Next up, 3 companies make up a Battalion. This'll be headed by a LtCol with a Sergeant Major as the senior SNCO. Here's where you need to start adding asterisks to the "rule of threes/pyramid" structure, because a battalion will have some support companies (machine guns, mortars, motor transport, supply, and engineer, as well as headquarters & support (H&S) for an infantry battalion). The H&S company will have the CO's battle staff. At a battalion level, you'll have an Adjutant (protocol and paperwork), an S1 (admin), S3 (ops), S4 (logistics), and S6 (comm). They'll each have some people working for them.

A battalion is the smallest standard Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF), a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU). A MEU will likely have some real artillery, maybe some armor, and recon attached to it. I'm pretty sure a MEU will also have an S2 section (Intel). Then there will be a Combat Service Support Element (CSSE)--that's the engineers and motor-t and such, and a Air Combat Element (ACE), composed of cargo and attack helicopters and maybe a Harrier or two. The US always has one MEU afloat with the Navy on each ocean, one on each coast, getting ready to go, and one on each coast that has just gotten back. The MEUs go out for six month "pumps" and have the logistics to support themselves in combat for, like two weeks. [Ooh! Just remembered: The MAGTF will have its own commander (a Colonel) and his staff, that are above the GCE (Ground Combat Element). This is where the S2 will be.]

But I digress. Next you have a Regiment--3 batallions. 3 Regiments make up a Division, and there are 3 active divisions in the Marine Corps. A regiment will, I think, get a colonel--maybe a brigadier general, but Sgt Major is still the highest ranking enlisted. And a division has either a 2 star or 3 star general.

Next up on MAGTF size is the Marine Expeditionary Brigade, a MEB. A MEB will get a Brigadier General (1 star) and will be a heavy regiment with commensurate CSSE and ACE support. MEBs aren't standing units, but are special-built.

Finally you have the MEF. This is run by a Lt General (3 stars). At a MEF level (or higher) you'll add G5 (plans), G7 (training), and maybe G8 (finance). You've got I MEF on the West Coast, II MEF on the East Coast, and III MEF in Okinawa. (11th, 13th, and 15th MEUs are on the West Coast, 22nd, 24th, and 26th on the East, and I forget which three are in Oki)

As an added wrinkle, you can have "Special Purpose MAGTFs", these are--wait for it--special. They are whatever size and composition is needed for the mission. Some of the missions could be NEOs (Non-combatant Evacuation Operations) and TRAPs (Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel).

All this may be a moot point for your story. You said you were looking for a specialized group. In that case, Anc is likely your go-to-guy for advice. The Marine Special Forces unit is brand new and I'm not up on its organization. Then there's SEAL teams, which I think are like, 4-6 man teams with fairly senior personnel. And of course there are SG teams, which are usually comprised of around 4--mostly officers, but there may be civilians and even aliens on an SG team.

Office = Workcenter

Interesting. Never heard of that usage before.

That's because you weren't in at the tail end of the Vietnam Era Navy when all the terminology was being replaced by buzzwords.