Anyone Looking Forward to Star Trek: Axanar?

No, he can't. Any amount paid to the "employees" makes the work they do non-volunteer. And there isn't and there was never anything said that the purpose of the studio is to facilitate the future of other fan based productions. And another issue than can be brought up is the "exclusive content" that supports get. There are several stipulation that come with being a paying supporter, some of which is getting a digital copy of the movie/episodes which is only given to those that have paid to receive it. Therefore there is a financial transaction to obtain the movie, the reception of goods and/or services in exchange for currency. If was truly a non-profit endeavor then anyone wanting to would get a digital download at no cost to them.

It was stated by Kirk in "Whom Gods Destroy":

KIRK: I agree there was a time when war was necessary, and you were our greatest warrior. I studied your victory at Axanar when I was a cadet. In fact it's still required reading at the Academy.
GARTH: As well it should be.
KIRK: Very well. But my first visit to Axanar was as a new fledged cadet on a peace mission.

The fan film "Star Trek: Axanar" is about a Starfleet Captain named Garth who leads a battle at Axanar, where he is considered a brilliant tactician. In the process, they use logos, locations, and character names of the IP rights holder. They're toast.

That's a shame, I was really looking forward to seeing it.

I was looking forward to it, too. Some of the fans on the Axanar page think I'm someone cackling with glee over the whole issue, and I'm not. I was really wanting to see what they could do, but CBS was in the right, and I agree with them this time. Axanar did push things, and it's clear now that they never had the implicit permission they claimed to have earlier in production. It was hubris that got them in trouble. They bit off too much.

I was looking forward to seeing the movie/episodes when they were finished. But after reading what CBS and Paramount's stake is in this, and how they control the fair use the Star Trek franchise, Axanar did overstep the fair use and boundaries of what would be fair use. The website for Axanar states that they had the cooperation of the studio to proceed. And it's apparent that they did not, or went past what they were allowed to do.

I would have liked to see it completed, and to see the final product. The fan in me is saying screw the studio, but the realist in me knows that it can't happen. So yeah, not likely to be completed. I did intend to be a supporter, but never got around to actually doing.

My guess there will be, if there isn't already a cease and desist. They'll spend a good chunk of what has been given already to put up a legal show. When the funds run low Peter Alec will drop the case, but end up with a decent production studio to create other for profit productions or rent/sell services to other productions as a for profit studio.

And it's a shame because they possibly could have instead pitched the idea to CBS, showing what support they had and their new revenue model for the production, with the proviso that CBS, as the IP holder, could air it however they wanted. The fan contributions could have been treated the same as times when fans band together to save or relaunch a series, with no promise that they'll succeed.

You mean like pretty much every other fan work? Because you're still not convincing me that I shouldn't care about what happens to Axanar in relation to what it could mean to my own work.

This is the sting for me. A lot of the other stuff doesn't bother me morally (I'm happy if he keeps a studio he built to make the movie I contributed to, etc.), and I don't necessarily agree with copyright law that forbids such productions (although I realise it is currently the law), but this seems to have been a direct false statement.

Or maybe he did have the cooperation of the studio when they thought it was just another silly fan film, and nobody looked back in on the project until much later when it was brought to someone's attention.

Maybe so. It will be interesting to find out, if we can.

Yeah. It'll probably be hard to get through all the finger pointing and excuses.

But if they retain the studio and can still put together top quality material, maybe they should just switch to a different sci-fi universe that has sufficient similarities to Star Trek that they wouldn't need major changes to what they can do. I'm sure we could all suggest some. Honor Harrington has already gone to Evergreen Studios, but there are plenty of other good series out there. Perhaps Jack Campbell's series ("Defiant", "Courageous", "Lost Fleet", etc).

Is an Honor Harrington series or movie being developed? I had heard some time ago but I thought it had been abandoned.

I still would love to see a Battletech television series or movie.

I checked again. The Honorverse Wiki said:

Evergreen Films Inc. was an American film studio that was in the early stages of adapting the Honor Harrington series for the big screen.

The first film had a projected release date of 2016, but was permanently delayed when Evergreen closed down in mid-2015.​

I have no idea what the various arrangements would be from that.

Did you take Star Trek's name, say you were going to make a film, get $600,000 in donations and use most of it to build your own for-profit production studio instead of using it towards the film ($100,000 went to Prelude to Axanar)? Axanar did! I think that will be the major sticking point. The rest is just more of the book being thrown at them, because CBS has every right to make those stick as well.

My joke comment above about Alec writing a letter to CBS thanking them for the free use of their IP was indeed a joke, but there was truth in it. This is what Axanar did. The second wave of donations, totaling $1,000,000 was from a later kickstarter campaign, and that's what was to be used for the Axanar film.

I think that doesn't play a role at all for the questions of copyright or trademark infringement. It could arguably be an issue between the project and its backers, but they didn't get any clear promises, this being kickstarter.

No. I'm saying that the only shred of a defence lies in fair use because they'd argue they were a non-profit production and wouldn't be selling tickets or DVDs. I don't think they would succeed because the funds they have acquired have been used not only for a back door studio building venture, but also to pay themselves salaries - therefore meaning they have used a copyrighted brand for personal enrichment. I was simply illustrating to Dayton what they'd have to try and argue to get around the copyright. The burden would be on them to demonstrate the fair use, and I don't see how they can.

Of course it plays a role. The Axanar people have deliberately used the brand name to source funds. If they'd simply started a kick starter that sought funds for a studio building venture then they'd not have had a shred of the funds they got. The fact is that Peters piggybacked his future, for-profit studio venture, and his salary wishes, on the back of the project. That's using the goodwill of someone else's brand for a commercial venture.

It's not about the promises, it's about a company using a registered trademark to solicit donations to build a private for-profit film studio. If you owned Packard's Jelly Beans, and I set up a kickstarter to open a factory where I could make my own version of Packard's Jelly Beans without getting permission from you, that's bad enough. Suppose then, however, I make the claim that due to the money made from using Packard's Jelly Beans' intellectual property and trademark, I will open up Coloratura's Jelly Beans with that same factory. Wouldn't that be a significant legal issue? It is in the United States.

I'd back it if Packard's Faux Jelly Beans included puke, snot and turd flavours.

They do. We make true Packard's Jelly Beans, that taste the way customers want them. Ours are the real deal, and saying this will get us in no trouble with Packard's Jelly Beans whatsoever.

They be professional Jelly Beans from a professional Jelly Bean factory.

We even got a few employees who worked at Packard's Jelly Bean factory to come here and work for us!

Let's see....

1) Starfleet

2) Klingons & Vulcans like you say

3) Soval, a character straight out of the show

4) Garth, again, straight out of the show

5) Axanar was mentioned in the show

6) It's called Star Trek

7) It uses Star Trek designs and logos

8) It is passed off as Star Trek to it's funders

It's clearly Star Trek and is being passed off as such.

Yeah, but that's only because they got sacked and couldn't get work elsewhere.

Ouch.

I've had vomit and snot flavored Jelly Beans from Jelly Belly. They also had an incredible flavor called "dirt".

But back to the Star Trek franchise, Axanar screwed up royally, but there could be some interesting law if we probed around to see how much would have to change to avoid CBS's control. Sci Fi had a lot of basic knock-offs of Star Trek that just didn't use the name Federation of Planets or Star Fleet, but where the ships looked pretty much the same, fired the same weapons, and had essentially the same kind of crewmen sitting on a bridge staring at a screen and spouting Trek dialog.

If Paramount or Universal went too far in going after space shows because they looked too much like Star Trek, wouldn't it go the same way as the Star Wars versus Battlestar Galactica suit which never went to trial?

In that one Fox claimed a copyright on the idea of a friendly robot companion, space ships that look old and worn, the idea of democracy and totalitarianism fighting in the galaxy, the destruction of a planet, and 30 other points. Universal sued back because Star Wars copied the idea of cute robots from Silent Running, ripped off Buck Rogers from the 30's, and they realized the suits and counter suits would go in circles forever.

So if we had a copy of Axanar and used a cheap Chinese voice-over to change the names, how much else would have to change before it's just generic sci-fi, or even Star Trek fallen into the vernacular like "xerox this"? George Lucas sued over Reagan's "Star Wars" missile defense system, but the judge struck it down saying that everybody can use the term "Star Wars".

So if a story setting becomes so culturally ubiquitous that more people know the details of it that can name major events in WW-II, is demanding exclusive control over all aspects of that setting similar to someone claiming to have a copyright on "WW-II movies"? That would be an interesting question.

The Star Trek knockoff movie has already been done.

*looks down at sig* Yup. I use a lot of the same symbols, too, or ones that are very obviously derived from the ones made for the various shows. I also use the vast majority of the same names of characters and places, and I even made obvious rehashes of episodes on the show I make a point of saying I hope to do a better version of. True, there isn't money involved, in fact it costs me money to host the website, and I make a point of saying that the copyright belongs to CBS/Paramount other than what original work FND Staff has done itself, but hey, what's to keep them from coming after me? What's to keep them from coming after any and all fan sites? They tried it once before, but the backlash made them agree to a gentleman's agreement concerning fan sites. Maybe it's time to remind them of that again.

Nothing.

Yes.

Oh Jesus, you're going to be that guy. Look, walk into any for-profit corporation, tell them you're going to use their trademarks and intellectual property for a show you're doing. You'll ask for donations from people, but none of the money is going to them, it all goes to help you start your own business.

See how far it gets you. I'm sure you'll come back to me with resounding success.