My mum is mildly religious, in that she considers herself agnostic, that she really doesn't know, but that she also thinks that christianity has the best codes for living that she's seen, and as long as she tries to be a good person, she should be okay. So in essence, she's not one for too much theory, for arguing semantic points, or in general, for making a fuss. But heres the thing; recently, our local church has been pissing her off. Today, she actually disagreed so much with the priest, that she walked out of the sermon, on the obvious basis that she didn't HAVE to be there, she didn't HAVE to listen to it, and there was no point in sitting there seething. (My dad stayed, but he tends to be one of those that turns up every sunday and lets his mind wander). This is very unlike her. Do you think she should write a letter to the priest about her disagreements? On one hand, she knows she doesn't want to get into a dialogue with all the tangenting semantics that may occur; on the other, the priest will assume everyone agrees with him unless she speaks up. But again, if she doesn't agree with what the priest says, then it's her issue, not anyone elses, because in order to join the club, you have to abide by the rules, in essence. I suggested she look for another church, but she has 22 years of ties to this church. She has friends there, she goes out with the parish group, my brothers and I were educated at the school that is linked to the church, we all recieved up to holy communion there, and I think my little brother was baptised there as well. So, what do people think? Should she leave this church with all it's history and find a new one? Should she stay and turn up to sermons that she vehemently disagrees with? Or should she just give up going to church altogether, given that she tends to believe that personal faith is better, and merely uses the church as a time to reflect, and gain general guidance, as opposed to those who take the sermons and the need to go to church as specific guidance each time?
Hand her a hammer, a nail, her thoughts on paper, and do the Martin Luther thing! WE need a shake-up to the status quo!
Depends. I'm a pagan. I am a member of my church because they're as family to me. We disagree on a lot of things with regard to our spiritual paths, but again, we're there because we're family. What's she going to church for? The people, or the theology?
Well, it's almost like therapy/school. It's a time where she sits back, thinks about her past week and the week ahead, listens to the sermon and considers her current and future moral path, and then talks with friends outside after. But when you're regularly disagreeing with the sermons, then it comes to a point where you can't navigate with a negative; it'll just be a time to be angered rather than thoughtful, which is not the point.
She needs to convert to Wicca. She can give thanks to the Lord and Lady in whatever manifestation most appeals to her, and priests et al can fuck off and die.
I'd rather not, simply because then it would provide a not-really-relevant tangent to the main topic that would undoubtably be seized upon, and I'd quite like this original topic to remain the focus as long as possible.
Well then it is really hard for anyone to say what she should do. It's it a problem with the approach he is taking, or his attitude towards some people then it could be worth working out, if it is a fundamental problem with the values he is preaching though then it seems there is not much point in her being there at all, and if she does like going to a church for moral guidance she would be best exploring others until she finds one that matches her.
Find a new church. My parents left a church where they had been for over 20 years over serious disagreement with two successive preachers. And this is a church where my Father was head of Pastor Parish Relations Committee and my mother was a Sunday School Teacher.
Funny how those who aren't afraid to think for themselves in everyday life often feel morally (or in others ways) obligated to leave their churches when they refuse to drink the kool-aid, eh?
OK. First off, I'm a bit surprised to find out that the Borg family is Catholic(!) That out of the way, I don't know what to say. I haven't been particularly close to any church. When I was in Portland I was going to the cathedral because I like cathedrals and it was actually the closest church to my house. But I wasn't going very often, because the sermons were just terrible. I thought it was just me and church wasn't doing it for me any more until my Mom came out to visit. We went to church and afterwards she commented that the sermon was just terrible and I was like, So I checked out a couple of the other churches in the area and found one I liked. So I guess, yeah. If the priest is really something she can't get past, go find a new church. She can still keep her old friends, maybe get the bulletin or something, or she can make some new friends at a different church. Or just take a break for awhile and mull it over a bit.
I'd say that if she's on friendly terms with the preacher, then visit him in his office some day and tell him what she thinks, get a discussion going. If he's a stranger to her (in that she only knows him by sitting in the service listening to him), then bracing him on her disagreements may turn into a big fight, and it's probably not worth it.
I'd say it depends on the nature of the disagreement and the nature of the preacher. A good preacher could have a good discussion with her about it, and they could learn to appreciate each other's views, even if they don't come to an agreement. Otherwise, if I were her, I'd leave. A church is a means to expressing and experiencing your religion. If all you're getting from one is irritation, you should go somewhere else.
It is very hard without knowing the people involved or what was said. Your Mum could be misinterpreting something he said or the guy could be completely offbase and someone confronting him with teaching erroneous doctrine would only help both him and his flock. That said, I've been through plenty of crap with churches. I love God and have a faithful belief in him....but I have little use for religion or churches at this point. I walked away...and maybe someday I will try one again, but for now church is when Zel and I discuss faith and reason together and it is far more satisfying than any of the churches I've been in. She should follow her heart...if she feels a need to talk to the preacher about it, it may be not just for her own benefit but his that she does so. She just has to be prepared that she may get a less than Christian response....and really, if she does, that should be her answer about leaving right there.
My advice is: Ditch church. If you want to stay spiritual and need guidance, turn to the Bible. You shouldn't need a preacher telling you what to think every week.
I imagine that's why she wants to write a letter. So she can tell him her view without having to argue about it.
Something else to keep in mind: Yes, priests are supposed to be peaceful and benevolent and good at dealing with people. But bottom line, they're barely evolved hairless apes just like us. Some of them are smarter and some of them are stupider and they aren't wonderful, magical creatures or something. They're only human and have the same flaws and foibles we do. This is also good to keep in mind when dealing with other generic fields of "expert"--doctors, lawyers, scientist, politicians, etc. They were born with more or less the same capabilities as you or I, so take their title with a grain of salt.
Muh? Like I said, it's because she doesn't think she can raise her views without making a fuss, at least if she left she could still enjoy it, and leave those that enjoy this church to their sermons. I'm really proud she walked out actually, it would have been very easy for her to assume that she was the one in the wrong, and just stuck it out (or at least, paid lipservice to the church rather than acting on her morals), but instead thought about what her beliefs were and why, deciding he was wrong, and that she didn't want to support it by staying in mass (she's not one of those who thinks that heaven is closed to those who don't go to church every week). Even better; we're basically Irish Catholic (grandmother very irish catholic, the 4/5 times a day on christmas, 3 times a week, communion bearer kind), so the power of catholic guilt is doubled. I'm quite certain it's why as much as I try to be atheist, I can't help but have my own superstitions.
I argued with the Priest when I was much younger. But he kept telling me if I didn't touch his peepee that I was going to hell.
First she should discuss her issues with her friends, the parish group, ask for their advice. Also your mother could talk with another priest about her dilemma.
A letter is a great idea and it accomplishes a lot. First and foremost, it's very cathartic to express what's irking you. As Tamar points out, you get to make your points uninterrupted, and as you're doing so, you're organizing your own position in a way that you couldn't if you were arguing....and that can force you to have to examine your own mindset in a way that you couldn't while arguing either. While hammering one's point into someone with whom you're arguing can be very satisfying to the inner, bitter kraut in all of us (well, not really all of us, but you take my point), the person receiving the letter gets to read the points being made without worrying about how to respond extemporaneously. The point might not ever sink in, but then again, if it's being read instead of argued verbally, it might. When one's not trying to think of his or her own snappy comeback, he or she is going to be paying a different kind of attention. The letter's a good idea. If nothing else, just getting things "off your chest" in such a way is good for your sanity. So....inquiring minds want to know: Did you achieve redemption, or will you be at the Club Dante party with Sinatra, Jim Morrison and the rest of Wrodforge?
I agree with Packard. If she only wants to spout off her disagreements than nothing can be accomplished...including getting him to reconsider what was said. She needs to be open to her own misinterpretations being rebutted as well as identifying the priest's.
This ia ll true, of course. But it might be served even better if the letter remains unsent. That's a difference between (some forms of) immediate communication and letters, not between a single letter and a dialogue.
