Atheists DO Go to Heaven

According to Catholics and a guy called the Pope.

Link

Not that it matters.

So what's the point of going to church, then?

The collection plate?

The sacramental wine?

The pedophilia?

I don't really care what the crazy old fool has to say. He's also been going around saying a lot of shit about "the devil" and casting out evil spirits.



http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/did-the-pope-perform-an-exorcism-595105.html

That's pretty standard for a Pope though. As well as this constantly shirtless, grubby guy named Larry who stands on the street corner near my office and yells at people.

So glad that that Bishop of Rome doesn't speak for me.

Catholicism has traditionally been a religion of lawyers, at least since the time of Ignatius Loyola. There's always been an "out."

Have you been bad? Go to confession. Promise you'll never kill your grandmother again, and your sin is washed away. Yeah, odds are even Hitler squeaked through before the gate slammed shut.

Don't believe? Doesn't matter. Be a good person, and you get to go to the Catholic Heaven.

This latter was not always the case, but since the Vatican's done away with Limbo and Purgatory, they've got to put people somewhere.

Confess on your deathbed, and you're in. You don't even need a priest to officiate.

The only thing that'll send you directly to Hell is "the sin of despair." That's why suicides were traditionally barred from burial in a Christian cemetery. But even that's changing.

There's also an "eternal sin", whereby you insult the Holy Spirit or some such, is there not?

That's a pretty far cry from "No salvation outside the church," the old standard that held even being Christian insufficient if one was not in good standing with the Catholic Church.

I don't believe in gods or heavens or afterlifes, but I must say that this is a hugely conciliatory move towards those outside Catholicism.

The pope has essentially said "Be good to one another. That's what matters."

Who would argue with that?

Phew. Now you can go back to the comfort of knowing that non believers and the like will burn for an eternity in hell instead of rubbing shoulders with your greatness in heaven. What a relief!

I would, given what is concealed in his definition of "good".

Maybe so.

But, going forward, I can see a much more constructive relationship with the Church if we argue about what's good, rather than what's Catholic.

That's pretty much the Sin of Despair: "I don't believe I can be saved!"

At which point the Holy Spirit purportedly says "Guess what, Skippy? You're right!"

That's true regardless of what the Bishop of Rome says, and it's no relief at all.

Even angels rejoice for every lost sinner that repents.

In other words do pretty much what you want, you'll be forgiven. That's his job.

How do you know?

And mafioso.

I'm thinking Pope Francis might die a sudden and mysterious death, just like John Paul I

In no way is this news. This has always been the position of the Catholic Church (albeit with the complication of limbo thrown in). Nulla salus extra ecclesiam only refers to the special treasure of grace to be employed for life *before* death, and gifted to the Church to dispense.

You sound crazy. Carry on, I guess...

That is not at all correct. In fact, that's so totally wrong, I think you must have simply gotten some of your terms confused.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, friend.

You're an expert on Catholicism now?

And thank you for the typical passive/aggressive christian response, friend.

What am I supposed to say, "Fuck you"? Would that do anyone any good?

Argumentum ad hominem. Was I wrong about what nulla salus extra ecclesiam means or not?

Because the author of this following article seems to agree with me and not with Packard.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

If athiests go to heaven wouldn't they be pissed off?