People, This seems the perfect place to ask. I am looking into getting into blackpowder shooting. Antique handguns. Maybe rifles. Here in Sweden these are license-free for pre-1890 and seem like a lot of fun. What should be my first gun? What should I think about? I am going to join a gun club. A friend at work shoots airguns. He doesn't know much about this tho. I know nothing. Total newbie. I mean, I am thinking maybe a Colt 1862, Manhattan, Cooper, ??? Any reasonable price range is fine. I want something reliable that shoots and doesn't explode. Good bang for the buck (nonintended pun.) Looking at Swedish sites. Overpriced. But dunno what to look for. Can probably import. Will check with law enforcement/customs. Oh and sorry for just dropping in like this after years (as I always do.) I'm fine, completely overworked, have friends, have sex, pretty decent overall. Happy Christmas! Oh and I'm designing some miniature crossbow models at work for fun. Will get back to you on that progress if anything pretty materializes. Just made a cannon.
from what I have seen on youtube videos and heard from people on an outdoor forum I frequent it does seem like a lot of fun! Lots of work of course experimenting with different powder loads & bullet weights, etc, which I think it really part of the fun factor. A lot of black powder rifles are in kits that you have to assemble - you would love that no doubt with your skills. I hope this works out for you! You are Swedish - are you aware Swedish UFC fighter Alexander Gustafsson is taking on Jon Jones tonight for the light-heavyweight title? I hope he wins (he's a slight underdog at this point I believe).
Yeah, I know about Gustafsson Jones II. I don't think Alex can take him. Plus Jones tested positive for steroids like yesterday yet he's allowed to fight. As for the kits, the main problem is that I can't make a black powder rifle legally in Sweden without license. You are allowed to own pre-1890 rifles and guns for historical shooting without one. I am discussing the legality of my crossbow design right now, it may be prohibited also. Salute cannons are fine. Of course I can get a license but hey, this is Sweden people. The country where you're regulated to within an inch of your life for everything.
Jones is allowed to fight in California but not Nevada because there was only a picogram of turinabol (or something) in his system which could have been left over from the last time he was using it which he served his suspension for already. It's super complicated! But the amount was so small he didn't test positive completely but it was present, so Nevada said "no way" and with about a week before the event the location changed from Vegas to LA. Yeah, a big goat fuck for everyone involved, fans & fighters and everyone.
I don't have any advice right now, but I'll chime in a few thoughts and a reference for now. For black powder firearms, you've basically got two periods--the late, pre cartridge, percussion cap days and the flintlock era--which ran for a lot longer. Sounds like you're aiming towards percussion. Actually, the early cartridge revolvers like the Colt Single Action Army "Peacemaker" (SAA) were initially blackpowder firearms, although I doubt something where you could buy modern .45 Colt cartridges is what is allowed. Percussion cap arms are definitely the practical way to go. Even so, they're a pain in the ass. There's a scene in "Quigley, Down Under" where the heroine is reloading a percussion revolver as dingoes are closing in and, compared to a SAA, I'm not interested. There are a couple Clint Eastwood Westerns that are probably worth watching too. IIRC, in one, Clint has a blackpowder revolver, but the cylinder is replaceable so he just drops in a new cylinder instead of reloading. That said, if percussion caps are impractical, flintlocks are REALLY impractical. 1 shot. You measure the powder and pour it down the barrel, tamp it down with a patch and a ball on top. Then you add some powder to the "pan." Pulling the trigger creates a spark where the flint on the hammer hits the striker on the pan, flipping it up so the sparks can light the powder in the pan which (hopefully) lights the charge that launches the bullet. As you can guess, a LOT of things can go wrong. But I figure if you're going to go, go big. When I was working on the pirate fashion venture, I was putting together a pirate costume for marketing and was toying with getting a proper flintlock pistol. I wanted an 1805 Harper's Ferry pistol. Not incredibly accurate for a pirate pistol, but plausible for a late era privateer. A good resource here in the US is Dixie Gun Works: https://www.dixiegunworks.com/ Hope this is useful.
I don't know if this is the proper term but firearms loaded with gastight cartridge ammunition is not allowed even if pre-1890. Actually, a pinfire gun would be allowed but Swedish authorities aren't exactly knowledgeable about the matter and it could run you into trouble. Anyway percussion is what I am thinking of, yes. Here's an example: http://www.tglteknik.se/alla-objekt...-navy-model-revolver-second-model-14081-34402 Would set me back ~1K. That'd be a very cheap option. Or much more expensive: http://licensfritt.se/new page 0-19/remington/kundv rnmnavy.html Talking 4K.
I've never shot black powder, but it looks like fun and I'm sure I'll eventually try it. I'd go with something like an 1851 Navy Colt reproduction, .36 caliber cap and ball (like in your first link). I take it that in Sweden when you say pre-1890, that means manufactured before 1890, not designed, and that modern replicas are not allowed. How hard is it to get a license for newer stuff? Here's Hickok45 shooting some modern Colt reproductions...
Very hard. As hard as it is to get a license for a modern handgun. Rifles are one thing; you need a hunters license, and that's not super complicated. We do actually have a lot of weapon owners here. But handguns are generally considered "things used for killing people". Easiest thing would be getting a license for a .22. License for a Colt replica of the type you linked would take a lot of hassle.
while handguns in general are indeed "things used for killing people" I cannot think of one instance here in the US (and spoiler alert we have a lot of gun violence!) in which a black powder pistol was used to kill someone within my lifetime. I don't think anyone has ever committed armed robbery or carjacking or any crime with a black powder pistol within my lifetime. BTW you can legally hunt with a handgun for game up to the size of deer & bear here in the US in most states, but it's not very popular. Modern crossbows are INSANELY ACCURATE & POWERFUL! A buddy of mine from worked killed a couple of deer this season with a crossbow (he was hunting in his sister's yard and she lives in the suburbs so it's not safe to use a gun there) and they cut a path of absolute destruction through both deer. I'm talking busting through shoulder bones like they were toothpicks. Both deer dropped like a sack of cement. Of course they are worthless for crime or self defense because it takes forever to reload.
I’ve often toyed with the idea of getting a black powder pistol (either a reproduction .44 Colt Walker or, more likely, a repro .44 Colt Dragoon) but that’s all it would be: a toy. Too much of a hassle to load and reload. I know some outfits sell cartridge conversion cylinders for them, which would make them more convenient to shoot but that would drive up the cost beyond what I’d want to pay.
I can't think of anyone robbing a store or killing anyone with a crossbow in Sweden either. Nevertheless crossbows need license, and getting one is arguably harder than for a handgun. The wtfuckery. I really want to make some miniature models; I know I could do a good job. Hell, I could design and make a gun proper, it'd just be a lot of time and effort involved. But I have access to very good materials.
When it comes to weapons actually manufactured before 1890, I can't help you a lot. It has never been my bag. I've often thought about getting a reproduction 1861 Springfield Rifle, Colt 1851 Navy Revolver, or even a reproduction LeMat just for the cool factor. But, I've never been serious about it. Basically my knowledge is limited to two things. One, they're easy to clean. All you need is hot soapy water in a bath tub and WD40. Two, there's only one way to unload a muzzle loaded black powder weapon. Shoot it.
I've got a repro Colt Walker, 1860 Colt Army, and an 1862 Colt Navy. For the first few years I had a ball shooting them (outdoors only - I don't think any indoor ranges I frequented could deal with the smoke). But after a while it just became a pain to keep them clean. I still have them, but I haven't shot them in decades. They were especially fun at night!
Just a warning, some environmental laws will include crossbows as firearms for the purposes of limiting their firing near roadways and homes. I know this because paintball guns are actually considered firearms based on limiting shooting and not on possession. Many states write those laws so loose a spitball can be considered shooting a firearm. in NYS state it is written that anything firing a projectile that can cause harm using explosion, gas, or force is illegal to discharge within certain distances of homes and highways. A lot of other states have similar laws to prohibit hunting too close to homes or roadways even if you are not using something that shoots bullets. Again, this has little to do with possession as most of the devices they look to regulate are well within the legal realm to own. It is just they can bust you for firing them. I would imagine crossbows don't generate lot of calls as they are silent and few people know you are shooting them to inform the police. I would say you would want to be careful with where you fire a black powder gun and check hunting and environmental codes so you do not get yourself into legal trouble with the police.
In New Jersey, black powder handguns are still subject to all handgun laws and purchase permits (as are, believe it or not, BB handguns), yet in NY, which is more restrictive than NJ as regards 'real' handguns, black power and BB pistols can be bought without permits. Would you believe even slingshots are considered forearms in NJ??
Would you believe even slingshots are considered forearms in NJ?? Forearms? I knww there's a movie about a woman with a machine-gun leg. Slingshot forearms would be a new twist on it I guess.
Yes the laws are written for widespread interpretation. A couple of years ago some kid got a HUGE fine for firing a BB gun within the city limits around here. As for "any type of projectile" I wonder if a bobby-pin fired from a rubber band would fall under that term? I killed a mouse one time firing one of my mom's bobby-pins at a mouse. DAMN....it would be cool to build something that fires an old-school LAWN DART!
Any time someone brings up black powder shooting, I think of my one uncle who was heavily, heavily into the sport. He had enough powder stored in his basement to blow his house to the moon. When he passed away (Viet Nam vet, agent orange exposure, brain tumor), my aunt had loads of fun getting rid of all his black powder stuff.
When I was a kid, I came into possession of a can of smokeless powder (IIRC, it came from an uncle of mine who gave it to me when I helped him clear out his old shed). I had a loooooot of fun with that. I could never figure out how to make it go BOOM (need to hold it together while it ignites, dummy) but I was able to make it burn stuff up real good.
It's a lifelong affliction - I keep hitting the i key or the o key when I mean to hit the o key or the i key. At least I haven't typed "shitgun" lately.
I got my father an 1851 colt navy replica for christmas some years ago, he never has figured out how to load it. Might get him some powder caps and ball for hus birthday.
They would be "firearms" under NY environmental codes and limited to where you could use them, but not owning them.
What is the code, I would love to see it out of curiosity. I have never bought a paintball gun in jersey, but I am wondering what defines a handgun over an air rifle. I am curious if the spring fired airsoft pistols, or the battery operated ones, would qualify as handguns.
