BREAKING: U.S. Civil War commences

Because trump's bullshit needed to be stopped as soon as possible. Now, Congress can put forth bills to either legislate what trump wanted, or ensure the shit trump did never happens again. But, Biden or any other self-respecting politician regardless of party would have acted the same.

This is not political and the reason I dislike him. However, at the time, ... heck, even garamet has defended his actions. So, my stance in regards to Bill Clinton was not universally accepted. This is not true for the shit trump did politically.

What did she do? And don't say Benghazi or the emails.

The Benghazi hearings proved her role in what happened was not in any way contributory to the deaths of those 4 men. In fact, the most dominant factor was the Republican Congress cutting funding for security to that and other embassies.

As for the email on a private server, there wasn't any laws or precedence saying she couldn't/shouldn't do so. However, when Ivanka trump did the same, the was, in fact, both law and precedence that she couldn't/shouldn't. Yet, I do not recall you saying boo about it.

So, let's give us a real, grown up, answer.

But her emails!!!!!

no deflection involved - trust me, I'm not that clever. I'm trying to follow his train of logic/thought process.

Maybe it's a bad idea to complain about other people not drawing lines or distinctions in the same post where you fail to recognize any distinctions among "the left" yourself?

Regardless, plenty of people on the left (too many IMHO) are extremely eager to forgive and forget and go back to business as usual. Biden himself has a long history of working with Republicans, and the media has been fixated on whether or not everything the Democrats do is "bipartisan" enough.

But to address your main concern, fuck anyone who watched the last four years unfold and still mindlessly voted Republican, and fuck you for defending them constantly.

Expecting me to argue?

I'm as wary of the left as I am of the right.

You see me as left wing because we differ on where the middle is.

No.

He didn’t.

You’ve been lied to again.

That the world has numerous corrupt left-wing governments has little to do with the history or likely future of the Democrats. In the past, Democrats have been fairly good about calling out other Democrats when they have committed far less serious misconduct. Just ask former Senator Al Franken.

I guess I should rephrase that to "credibly accused of what Trump has done politically as president."

I think it was perfectly reasonable to ignore the warning signs you list (and more), to be ignorant of them, to think that Trump would either somehow rise above them or bring in a cabinet of people who could be trusted to attend to the little details while he attended to the big picture. Hell, I will even give a pass to people thinking that Hillary posed such a fundamental risk to the nation that anyone short of Hitler would be fine, or we have tried these career politicians and they failed, so why not Trump?

But when there have been four years of his actual track record to judge on and you're either, this has been the most successful presidency EVER!!! Or even it's worth it to me to have four more years of this to own the libs, that is some frightening and disappointing stuff.

In the past being key here.

Many oppressive and corrupt governments of all stripes have developed from much more mundane, innocent or even idealistic beginnings.

Hence my point that we need to be careful going forward. We always need to be careful, because the very MO of dictators that Trump bungled so badly works without regard to affiliation.

Al Franken was in no sense such a threat. He was sleazy and repulsive, but never a potential dictator or threat to democracy. The very fact of his "far less serious misconduct" is the point, he wasn't worshipped or feared in the way Trump was and still is. He was not the focal point of a rabid and dangerous mass movement.

Charismatic leaders have on many occasions found the same weakness in democracies, the tendency for a majority to become a mob if seduced in the right way, if told what they already want to believe and given simple answers to complex problems. If there are quality studies linking such tactics with a particular political leaning I'm yet to see them.

Fact check

People who couldn't see the picture made by the connect-the-dots in 2016 didn't see it because they didn't fucking WANT to.

And I don't just mean Trump voters, but fucking liberals too.
I have less patience with the latter.

The relevant part

Biden's exact quote:

What he's saying, @oldfella1962, is that if you can't accomplish something with the support of Congress or the American people, so you must do it by executive order, then that is what dictators do.

Biden did win the votes. He campaigned on making those executive orders right off the bat. and people voted for him. He had the votes. He made the executive orders that he campaigned on. Now, yes, he needs to go to Congress and ask them to draw up and pass legislation that would require long term changes to the laws of this country - like not discriminating against trans people.

@The Ghost of Crazy Horse will be here any moment to tell us how large numbers of people invoking the 1776 option doesn't actually mean initiating a violent uprising.

@oldfella1962 is a piece of shit, I don't understand why anyone bothers responding to his posts. You'd have more luck convincing a rooster not to crow.

As long as I'm amused I'll keep responding. Once I get too bored...well there's always the Tererun option...

Well, if he insists on being NuDayton, why not give him his prize of a Dayton beatdown?
Stupid games, stupid prizes.

goodness what a well researched and articulated comment!

Irrefutable even.

I was helping a friend remodel his kitchen this weekend. We were doing some framing and I was admiring some of the 2x4s.

I thought to myself, "these 2x4s are so much smarter than @oldfella1962 ."

I could say that I have zero love for the Democratic party, but that would be a lie.

It's in the negatives.

Trump is just as horrifically terrible a person as the most stridently partisan Republican wants you to believe all the Democrats are, and only the most stridently partisan Republican would believe otherwise. I take it you concede that point, since your response was an irrelevant attempt at ad hominem against me.

And what is the @Tererun option? OMG I am so used to putting the at before things I put it for my own name.

Oh well, I am sure I will be amused at the T option.

You do realize the only reason you are around is that you are like an ornery declawed house cat that won't bite? We all won't bite, but your nasty is just hissing and spitting and us taunting you because you are never going to do anything really bad. Don't get me wrong, I have a thing for that sort of cat. It goes along well in the house and is part of it's personality.

However, even in the realm of trumpsters you don't do anything. You obviously were not up at the capitol or part of the proud boys. You may have cheered them on but you stayed at home in your lane. I will defend that, and I will even listen to that. I may not always agree with it, but around here you have equal status and if someone wants to give you some shit for your racism, they can. It does not mean you don't belong, it just means you are prickly.

In the wake of recent news and the fact that the 1 year anniversary of this event just passed, this is a really interesting thread to revisit. How I wish garamet was still with us.

Oh, yeah, FF was a traitor as the shit was happening.
Fuck you all over again, FF.

I'd love to see a Venn diagram involving 1/6 rioters and their opinion about antiwar protests in 2003.

Because I'd bet dollars to donuts that of the ones who were old enough to have an opinion, 95% of them were outraged by the Dixie Chicks and thought waving a sign that said "Support Our Troops, Bring Them Home" was tantamount to treason.

You pretty much nailed it.

She died protecting the Capitol from QFarmer. RIP.

His family was there on January 6, so it can't have been an insurrection.