Can Kids Consent to Hormone Blockers?

So you chose to be a heterosexual male for the past couple of decades?

My prohblem with all this so called care for the children is that again we have a large portion of the people who supposedly care for the children would be the same people who would say let them eat bootstraps if they were hungry, or throw them out on the street if they do not want to pray to jesus to get into a shelter. These people have taken their ignorance and made up a lie that doctors are just pushing hormones and untested puberty blockers on kids. Even after we see these lies come from the stupidest of conspiracy nuts regular people are still wondering if it is true without doing any real confirmation on the story.

I get people cannot keep up on every diverse aspect of life, but I wish the uninformed but decent people would look at the source and go to see what the other side actually says before pushing the allegations out like they are something. Why not ask google what the process of transition is for a child? Why not go to the many medical sites which advocate for trans people and read how they put it? Pretend you are a trans person and go down the rabbit hole to find out how to get treatment and what is advised.

This goes into other places too. I know what it is like to get onto welfare because I have actually gone and helped people do it. I know what the processes are for social security disability because I have gone out and done it for people. I have actually been down to the department of social services and know that the nice cars there belong to the workers. I know that some of the people on welfare might get a ride from friends because they are poor and have friends with nice cars.

When you do things like research and help different types of people you learn how much bullshit is out there. Hang out with a trans person for a while. Make a fucking friend and you might know how wrong you are without having to ask stupid questions. If you do listen to the obviously right wing liars just check if they are telling you the truth by looking up the actual regulations and methods. Realize when there is a huge gap in between what the right wing idiots say and what the actual medical field says that it is not some grand conspiracy hillary clinton created to sell kids at a pizza parlor, it is just the right wing lying.

@Uncle Albert is a heterosexual male? That is not what the glory hole at his local flying J says. My sources say he likes a peter in his pooper more than the rest of the guys. There is quite the drama going on because he simply will not share the hole with the others.

Dear UA give the other guys a fucking chance. We all like the dick, and you cannot have all of them.

Come on, Nova, you are capable of a much better response than that. If all you can do it resort to vulgar insults, to one of the most intelligent posters on the board (even when I disagree thoroughly with him, I would never consider him "stupid"), you discredit your own cause, which is a shame.

Do STFU with that. It was a bad analogy that comes from stupid people.

I personally thought it was an ironic statement dripping with sarcasm, but it is still what a stupid person would say, and is an example of what anti-trans people do say. It is stupid and should be mocked and insulted. The peopole who say it should feel bad. You should really stop pretending the feelings of a jackasss who said something like that should be considered when they are actually trying to fuck with trans people in a way that demeans them and causes them pain.

I try to give you a chance and you just keep proving me right about you.

Yes, I was being facetious.

But @Jenee made the comment that the behavior of a 2 year old with regard to gender should lead to parents having a conversation with doctors about medical intervention. That's preposterous, the kind of thing needs to be ridiculed.

This thread isn't assuaging my perception that some of those involved in agitating for this trans rights are very touchy and believe they should be beyond criticism.

To be fair, I think the “other side” are the same. I’m a member of an architectural drawing group and one of the off topic chat boards is about Gender. I’ve never really ventured in there but since I’ve read a fair bit about it this week, I thought I’d give it a look.
Anyway, one of the posters mentioned a charity called Mermaids and how it was child abuse to give hormone blockers, so I explained that I’d had the very same chat with an actual transwoman this week and this is how she’d countered some of the points.

I got a lengthy DM from another one of the members describing me as a TRA Handmaiden and all I’d done was showcase my internalised misogyny.

From TERF to TRA Handmaiden. Been a wild week.

This thread, like any other thread, is what the posters make out of it

I honestly couldn’t care less if you have a hissy fit over where the conversation is going or isn’t to your specific liking, as this is what this all seems to boil down to

Being an extremist on both sides doesn’t make you much of anything other than likely to have a serious personality disorder

Probably because the debate over trans rights directly and seriously effects their lives and the lives of people they know personally?

I suspect having a child of your own has made you more than a bit "touchy" about subjects like vaccinations, pedophilia, and leash laws for pitbulls.

The only people who are going to contact a doctor to intervene with a two year old are the ones who's two year old is not conforming to their gender demands. That is bad parenting. At two toys are pretty gender neutral. However, children do gender identify pretty quickly and it is soon after they will be telling you.

That could literally apply to any subject and anyone.

Fun fact: Nova is being far more reasonable and diplomatic in this thread than you are whenever Kurtzman!!! comes up.

Fun Fact: I don't care.

She's right and she should say it.

If Dayton or Oldfella made such a fecking dumbass analogy like this on any other subject, Rick would have been the first person to shred them for it. He's proven himself to not be this stupid in the past yet on this issue he gets the brainworms over.

I realize TERF dogma has rooted it's way into their media but still.

YEP. We've had this convo too many times on this board for people who consider themselves leftists like Rick to be this assbackwards.

Once again for the kids at the back of the short bus, no one--repeat NO DAMN PERSON, ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED FUCKING STATES WITH NO NATIONAL MEDICAL PLAN --is talking about hormone blockers for two year olds. NO ONE.

BUT IF your kid is 9 to 12 AND has been professing a gender SINCE before pre-k, THEN AND ONLY THEN will the topic of blockers even get brought up as an option.

Yes i mean everyone gets identically hysterical when we discuss say drug addiction

Iv been telling you for 15 years you were a mysoginist!!!

I'm sure you realize how shitty your analogy is, but that's probably the point.

The best comparison I could think of would be if state governments tried to outlaw covid vaccines, or any sort of medical care for the mentally ill, while folks here were posting shit like "minors aren't capable of being schizophrenic" and "people only have blood clots in their lungs because it's trendy."

That's exactly the point. The analogy is steeply beneath what he's capable of understanding so why should I indulge it?

Jenee's post alluded to the persistence of the claim - if the child indicates a cross-sex identification (and not just an assumption based on cultural cues) from 2 UNTIL 10(ish) then it's a god idea to explore the oncoming potential need of medication.

The plain reading of her comment was NOT "boy plays with dolls at 2, so let's hustle off to the endocrinologist to discuss what medications we need ten years hence"



ETA: can't speak for other but god-damn right I'm touchy, and anyone who's NOT got multiple well funded organizations which own half the politicians in this country working 24/7 to legislate you and everyone like you completely out of public life maybe doesn't have a frame of reference to mull whether or not I'm "too" touchy.

Congrats on your first personal missive FROM a TERF.

(Mermaids can be credibly said to have saved lives....which TERFs didn't want saved)

Amen but also, people seeing meds for transition in the UK testify that the wait list is irrationally too long and worse for kids. Tavistock notwithstanding, a kid of say 12 can present for blockers and can literally get all the way through puberty while waiting, and then wait some more for HRT and in some cases you age out and get handed over to the adult treatment side and get put on a whole other wait list.

It's not easy here - and it never happens for kids before Tanner 2 as you referenced - but if you have access to a qualified and willing provider AND have a lot of money or great insurance (one shot of Lupron a month costs about $1200 according to a NP friend of mine), which rules out a lot of kids that just don't have logistical access even with supportive parents, you're probably going to do better than the UK right now.

Kids love dinosaurs. When Jurassic Park came out my son thought he'd died & went to heaven.

I just don’t know how anyone expects their message to have any purposeful impact when they dust it with disproportionate, accusatory screeching.

No, I don't think so.

It would have been very quick and easy to say: "I don't know your child, but I highly doubt he identifies as a dinosaur. He is almost certainly just pretending to be one, which of course is something very different."

Nova has managed to position herself as Wordforge's most informed poster on this subject. Most everyone else, on both sides of the issues, simply echoes what they have been told. But Nova has done extensive research on the issue (for obvious reasons), and very often comes across as "the voice of reason". I would hate to see her lose that credibility by descending to the level of those who just flame and troll.

There might be a certain short-term satisfaction in vulgar insults, but I can't think of one case, ever, in any situation, concerning any issue, where I saw vulgar insults bring someone to change their mind. (Can you?) But I have seen reasoned arguments do it, many times.

That is worth much more, in the long run, than simply insulting someone's intelligence, especially in vulgar terms.

You don't have to indulge it, and you shouldn't indulge it. But as I just posted, you can use a different approach that, in the long run, has a much greater chance of success.

In French we say, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." Stick to the "honey"; you know how to use it. When you switch to "vinegar", you just take something away from your credibility and thus encourage others to refuse to listen to you.

So lets see, assy thinks that blacks and trans people should be nice to the bigots who are against them because the bigot might change their mind? We would not want to insult openly prejudice people because iot might hurt their feelings. It is always the fault of those damned minorities when they tell off a bigot.

Just another way assy is like trump and the good people on the right.

I would like to thank @Tuckerfan . I know you were poking fun at those sorts of statements as your history suggested, but you did lure out the transphobes who blame trans people for being offended by completely insulting remarks they love to spout. Funny how it always seems to come from the same group.

No oppressed group every got their rights by kissing boots.
Even suffragettes had to learn jujitsu to fight rapey cops.
Letting bigots be warm and comfy isn't how you get anywhere.
People who aren't bigots and should know better need a slap too.
Perhaps more so.

Funny enough, I said that about 12 years ago on a similar discussion with a trans person who called me a bigot with no understanding. Granted the discussion was about one LJ user w a shitty past that wasn't apparent by the context but given this was 2009, that posters attitude and unwillingness to indulge until I made comments that showed I was at a minimum not looking to see trans people die makes complete fucking sense in retrospect.

I was smacked with my own unchecked privilege when I looked up my LJ account for something else entirely a couple years ago that I found an entry whining about how mean they were and why did they have to act as bad as the bigots? A post I had absolutely no memory of making.

I say she's right because I WAS that dense idiot--one who meant well, but didn't understand the issues or outwardly dismissed them as not a big deal, because I'm black I was nice to people so they totally respected me for it! (spoilers: they did not. See also the Wordforge "friends" who dropped me when they couldn't use me as one of the good ones any longer)

I think Nova has had more patience that I have to have put up with this shit for as long as she has. Just reading this thread exhausts me and I'm not even trans. But I know my weariness is a shadow of what she, Tererun, Amaris and the other stealth posters we've had face every day. So yeah, they're allowed to be a bit snappish after having the same circular conversations for all their out lives.

If someone gets mad because they weren't coddled like a newborn, they were never that sympathetic to begin with and Rick would be one of the first calling that out if anyone tried to tone police me over police brutality.

See also: white gays who say "I can't be racist, I'm gay! Tee hee"

White women got the vote largely because black men were voting in larger numbers and they wanted to neutralize their voting power, but that's another discussion entirely