Defund the Police

Schools do something similar with teachers accused of misconduct. They call it "passing the trash".

As of this year, there's a searchable database of such teachers here, which is more than can be said for bad cops.

For now, because there are hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. With a name like "Defund the Police", the reforms will stop the moment the protests do.

What incentives can possibly control the police union long-term? The culture is irredeemable, and unions perpetuate it. Maybe we could consider allowing them after 75 years or something, once all the existing officers have completely retired. But only for pay and hours. Everything else set by elected officials. Equipment, policies, hiring and firing, training requirements, records-handling, none of that can ever be subject to the power of the union again. ​

I'm inclined to agree with you based on current conditions, but I also think abolishing labor unions is a terrible idea.

I've got no problem with private sector labor unions.

Me either. I do think there is room for public sector unions. Maybe not to the degree of certain police unions, but I think it's important.

(Disclaimer that I have been employed in the past to oppose public labor unions)

I would appreciate it if I can tip my executioner with gluten free vegan muffins.

The revolution will make your end quick.

Honey, I Shrunk The Police!

Good to see this gaining traction. I read this morning that the NYPD has the same budget as the Ukrainian military.

The Hill Dems are pushing back against it, saying it's up to state and local authorities to make that call. They don't want GOP attack ads painting them as fringe leftists when they suddenly have a big lead over them and a shot at the Senate too.

I think Rick Moranis is a bit annoying (Space Balls aside), but I'd watch the fuck out it if he came out retirement and made this movie

Tagline: The police stumble into the little shop of horrors.

"The police tried to beat your ass, Seymour? I'm gonna eat their ass!"
Doo wop

Yes, but we have to compare things that are comparable.

I'm sure the Ukrainian military has to spend very little money on donuts...

Given that there are a substantial group of people who literally want to abolish the police and who think that the entirety of police budgets should be redirected elsewhere, I don't think it is a bad-faith argument to say that people who are talking about defunding the police actually are calling for abolition of the police without having worked through or caring about the consequences of that move.

Depends on the circumstances.

If someone starts from a position like "abolish the police," it could get the opposition to say, well that's not going to happen, but we could compromise by reducing police budgets by 10 percent. And then you could negotiate from there.

Or it could be deemed such an absurd demand that it causes people to walk away from the negotiating table altogether, leaving no progress, and possibly regression.

If the starting position is "We want the police budget to go down from 3 billion to maybe a billion and for the 2 billion to be redirected to better social services," it seems more likely to actually reach a compromise where the budget goes to 2 billion (or whatever).

It’s front page of al.com

https://www.al.com/news/2020/06/dec...-liquor-store-owner-who-reported-robbery.html

There are a number of big unions, and pro union people, who want the police union gone because all it has done is enshrine massive inequality at the cost of human lives and human rights. Here's a very recent article on that subject:

The WGA-East for one:

Source: https://deadline.com/2020/06/wga-east-calls-on-afl-cio-to-give-police-union-the-boot-1202953768/

The IWW and a bunch of others:

Source: http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2020/jun/04/iww-calls-afl-cio-drop-police-unions/

Cool story, bro? How does it compare to the Irish military?

speaking of bad faith arguments...

but no... I already gave my input on what I felt were immediate concerns re training, pay levels, mental health screening, etc. Using leftforge as a barometer I have no idea where you'd get "substantial" numbers calling for an abolition of policing. We're talking about lessening the scope of what they are responsible to respond to.

As is being seen repeatedly, they are not equipped to deal with practically anyone who is undergoing mental/emotional distress and frequently escalate these interventions into lethal encounters. From what I've been led to understand about recruiting here, they aren't even particularly looking for rookies with an aptitude for such, but rather stormtroops in training with prior MMA experience.

"Irish military" -! What a nimrod...

far more likely to shoot civilian bystanders?

Why is that a given?

Have any evidence to back it up?

The Irish military is much smaller. Your point?

He thinks he's insulting you. He also conflates police with military.

so early in the day.

I have had in-person and online discussions with people who believe that we should be striving for a world where there are no more armed police and where the entirety of the budget for police officers in their mind, not just a large part, should go to things like reparations, mental health care, drug treatment etc.

The following articles discuss some people's visions for a world where there are no more cops as we have known them, and I'm sure that there are others:

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chica...lternatives-cops-chicago/Content?oid=23289710

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/police-brutality-cop-free-world-protest-199465/