Ecosystem showdown: Apple vs Windows

I've recently become very interested in the idea of having one ecosystem to make my life easier. Since I'm building a house right now I have a great opportunity to turn this interest into a reality by creating an ecosystem to have a DIY smarthome. I'm not an IT guy but I'm definitely a power user of both PCs and Macs. I have an old 2008 MacBook pro, an iPhone 4S, a new iPad, an original iPad, 2 Apple TVs, and My fiancé has an iPhone 4 and an iPad 2. On top of that we both have very nice Dell computers that are company issued, and an extra docking station with a 3 monitor display set up in our home office. She also has a personal laptop that is a Samsung circa 2009.

The new house is prewired for audio control throughout the place and has cat 6 drops for Uverse connections in every room.

Now I'm kind of torn. While I enjoy the simplicity of use that comes with the Apple products I'm tired of the ridiculous restrictions Apple places on them. There is no reason my Apple TVs shouldn't be able to play .mkv files. And for that matter there is no reason iTunes shouldn't accept all video types too. Windows 7 is a beautiful operating system and I have high hopes for 8. On the other hand iCloud is greatness. I love that I can snap a pic on my iPhone and when I pick up my iPad or turn on the Apple TV it's there. It just works with no effort. With iTunes match my music follows me around too, though with Spotify and Pandora this is becoming obsolete.

I'm really wondering if MS will be able to make Windows 8 flow through like Apple has done with iCloud. Will a Windows phone, Xbox, Metro tablet/laptop, and Kinect all work together so seamlessly? Thoughts?

Supposedly the new apple TV coming out this fall is supposed to be a hub for managing a home. I'm not talking about the little dinky thing that sits on a desk, but rather the Panel and system that are coming. It is expected in November, I believe, but that is just based on industry analysts analyses.

That has been pushed to 2013 I think. And I'm very skeptical about Apple being able to add something to a TV that would make it worth the premium they will slap on to the price tag.

I have Mac at home and work with Windows all day. I hate Windows. The number of stupid things you run into that never occur with a Mac number in the trillions. I don't find the restrictions on the Mac environment so onerous as to stop me using it.

I will say I do not use the Cloud much, and certainly not for any of my data.

Windows compatibles are made for people who like and know how to use computers; Macs are made for people who don't like computers and don't know how to use them, but still want to feel special. So I guess it's a matter of if you want something cheap (presuming you're able to build a system from components) that works, or if you want something expensive that will also get the job done.

More like WinDoze is for people who want to work on their computer, Apple is for people who want to work with their computer.

Moar liek Apples are for hipsters that want a toy and PCs are for people who aren't afraid of their computers. As for working on it, it says a hell of a lot that Apple doesn't want any of its users to do any kind of maintenance or upgrading to their own machines, so much so that they've started using a type of screw that most people don't have the tool for. And of course there's the cost issue, which is to say that Apple users are being ripped off. PC companies are a little better, but since I can build PCs from components myself, I was able to build a pretty sweet gaming machine for the price of one of those cheap e-Machines you'd find on the shelf at Walmart. Of course, I'm the kind of guy who works on his own car instead of bringing it in to the shop, too.

Expense and modular repairs/upgrades are undeniable elements of useability.

This illustrates it pretty well:

I'm capable of building a system and operating in either environment with ease. The thing I get out of Apple vs Windows is that when I'm not there I don't have to field a bunch of phone calls from my fiance about how to use the system. It's easy and it works. But like you said, it's expensive. But since we already own pretty much everything it's not really *that* expensive. Switching to a Windows based system would be fairly cheap too, I'd just replace the Apple TV's with Roku's and be done with it and use her personal laptop in place of my Macbook Pro as backbone of the system.

When it comes down to it this is all about being able to stream all my media files throughout the house. Windows makes that easier, but I might be able to accomplish everything and stick with Apple just by jailbreaking the Apple TV's. I'm really just annoyed that I have to jailbreak to add a functionality that should be built in.

Airplay.

And how much actual work did you not get done while you were engaged in doing that? And building your own computer... jailbreaking... yeah, okay. Tell us again about how Apple is for hipsters.

I might suggest setting it up to duel boot, but if your fiance doesn't understand Windows you'd be stuck with the same problem. I guess you basically answered your own question, then, as there are plenty of websites dedicated to jailbreaking Apple TV's. Is there some reason you can't simply connect the computer right to the TV as a second monitor, though? Other than that, the only suggestion I would have would be to give her some training on running the Windows-based stuff, but what it comes down to is which option would be the least difficult.

Except the wheels fall off the motorcycle at random, every third time you start it you first have to empty the gas tank and change out the headlight before flipping it upside down three times, the speedometer and tach display indecipherable messages, and it gets hit by every big juicy bug in the state as it sputters down the highway.

Oh, and last I heard, a dual-boot Mac running WinDoze is faster than WinDoze running on a PC . . .

Uh, building a computer from components isn't hard, and it doesn't take long. It also doesn't cost as much as an Apple and I can continue to upgrade it for years to come, whereas with an Apple or even one of those cheap boxed examples at Walmart, you have to keep buying new ones if you want equipment that is more up to date. I guess the main difference there is that the cheap boxed PCs will only set you back a few hundred dollars while even a bottom-of-the-line Apple would cost much more than that. The main advantage gained from the Apple is that there are less hardware issues, but that comes with keeping an absolute monopoly on every aspect of their computers.

Well, seeing how Apples are marketed toward people who only seem to care about superficial things, and how a lot of them tend to look down on PCs even though PCs are more functional and are generally capable of doing more, I'd say that they are mostly for hipsters. And I say this as a guy who actually liked Macs back before Steve Jobs came back - you know, back when Apple didn't care if you worked on or upgraded your own machine and actually made it easier to do so. One of my favorite computers hardware-wise was the old G3 my dad got, which had the motherboard mounted to the bottom-hinged side door of the case. I'd actually like to build a custom case for the guts I got for my newest computer that would have a similar feature. Anyway, I do see that Apples have their own strengths, but mostly those strengths lie with art-project type stuff - Adobe products, video editing software like Final Cut Pro, various CGI programs, but to me, it isn't worth the extra money for that, especially when PCs have a much wider range of applications and don't have any of the other issues associated with Apple - like the way they don't like anyone even opening the cases of their computers and keep such a monopolistic control on every aspect of their machines. Also, as a gamer, I know that there are a lot more games you can get that will work on a PC which have not been ported to Apple.

You know, I used to use those same kind of arguments back before I'd even bothered to use a PC. There really aren't any of those kinds of issues unless you get one of the cheap ones from Walmart, in which case you got what you paid for. I can say with all honesty that my dad's iMac has had more issues than even my old Dell from 2005 ever had, let alone the newer Dell I got since then or the new homebuilt one I built last summer. I'm not saying that none of them have never had any issues, but they as a rule they aren't buggy, and my homebuilt really is more like the fancy motorcycle there due to the customization.

Also, I'm an engineering student - guess what we use in the various labs on campus to run all of our fancy and expensive equipment. Guess what the very last computers we'd ever use for that kind of stuff would be.

I'm also a gamer - guess which operating system has the most games ported to it (and by that I don't mean simple ones like chess or solitaire).

Oh, I see. Well, you seem like you already know how to jailbreak them, but if nothing else there are plenty of websites dedicated to this kind of thing that would turn up in a Google search. Another factor would be how soon you want to do this. Windows 8 is still a ways off, and whenever a new OS comes out, it's generally a good rule of thumb to hold off for a while so any bugs get found and worked out so you don't have to deal with them.

I do have a computer hooked directly to the TV in my bedroom. The issue is I don't want to unplug it and haul it around house every time I want something in a different room. I want to be able to stream to just the Apple TVs, however Apple has made this impossible without jailbreaking. The good thing about the Apple TV though is that the simple interface makes it easy for my fiancé to operate without asking me any questions. The interaction with iCloud is also great and that is a feature I would lose if I switch over the Roku's.

I would use airplay as apostle suggested but it is still very choppy when I've used it from my iPad and it will not be a feature compatible with my old MacBook Pro (Mountain Lion won't be compatible with the early 2008 MBPs) which would mean having to buy a newer Mac and that would be expensive. And there is also no way I'm buying a new laptop without seeing what Windows 8 is going to have to offer.

Yeah I could jailbreak Apple TVs. Good point about waiting a little while on Windows 8 too. What I'm curious about how much the touch interface is going to actually add or need to be present. It could be the case that a new MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion dual booted with Windows 8 would be awesome unless of course that touch interface is required for the best user experience because the next MacBook Pro is very unlikely to have a touch screen.

It came out in an interview with Walter Isaacson (Job's biographer) this weekend that there will not be a TV made by Apple, but that Job's "I cracked it!" comment referred to Apple getting content deals with all the major players. Here's a review of Windows 8 running on an Air. Here's how you can get a preview of Windows 8. This episode of Windows Weekly discusses media options under Microsoft. Depending upon what specifically you're looking for, you might be happy going all MS. However, there are a few things which you can't do going the MS route that you can do going with all Apple. Its hashed out in the episode, and it may or may not be deal breaker.

I hope Windows 8 doesn't require a touch interface. I'm also somewhat leery of them adopting a GUI even closer to MacOSX, because frankly the GUI is one of the things I don't like about MacOSX.

Frankly, I just wish all software engineers would pick a UI design and stick with it! Car makers don't randomly change the location of the steering wheel, gas, and brake pedals, while simultaneously altering the dash displays. Nor do they sneak into your car in the middle of the night to make changes, but software makers do!

Having programs update in the background is nice, when it comes to things like security patches, but when it comes to the UI, its a really bad idea. I don't want to launch a program and suddenly discover that I've got to relearn how to use the damned thing because some cube dweller figured out that he could justify his continued employment by rearranging all the buttons on a program.

I don't think it will require touch but it may enhance the user experience greatly. Now that software is being built with touch in mind switching between a mouse and your finger should be more seamless. Some things that require precision will never be good with touch, but art and media were meant to be hands on. iPhoto on the new iPad is what photo editing was meant to be, and that is coming from a photoshop fan that hates the computer version of iPhoto.

Operating system UI's have been pretty static in general on the Windows side since 95. Apple has shifted in the last few years but the changes have been good. Devices are evolving and that means it is time for a change. The way I see it going is more of a tile based look that doesn't require as much precision to operate so you can pick it up and touch if or grab a mouse and use it with little noticible change.

Your example doesn't really fit the way things have gone. Think about how much of Windows is the same since it replaced DOS, or since 95, and then 98. The changes are incremental and easy to keep up with and the shortcuts, hotkeys, and general layout of things are pretty much the same. That's why we are all so good at using it now.

I wasn't talking so much about OS GUIs as I was program GUIs, which have been rather dynamic in some cases (MS Office, AutoCAD, and Picasa spring to mind).

I can only comment on Office of those examples and again we are talking about incremental changes that are very good changes. I love 2010. I use Excel 2010 on average 5 hours a day everyday and it's a step up from 2007 and light years better than 2003. Again the hotkeys are the same so power users can just pick it up and run with it until they learn the tabs, which took all of about 2 days for me.

Which is only an issue if you treat your computer like a hobby. Skin uses his computer to accomplish other things. Skin has the skill, but neither the time nor the inclination, to accomplish his computer. Your mileage, obviously, does vary. Not thing one wrong with that. Different users, different usage scenarios, different outcomes.

And you would be off on your understanding of the definition of 'hipster.'

Hipsters despise the mainstream because it is mainstream. Building your own computer is as far from mainstream -- therefore as far into hipster territory -- as it gets.

Eh, not a fan of touchscreens, personally. Seems all cool and high tech until you start noticing the smears from the oil of your skin leaves across the screen, which is why I can't stand it when someone touches my monitor to point at something.

And I can build a system to accomplish whatever work I need to have done. You see, I'm an engineer, which means I solve problems. Not problems like, what is beauty - that would fall under your conundrums of philosophy. Me, I solve practical problems.

And in my experience Macs mostly come in handy when it comes to art stuff, and not so much when it comes to everything else. It's ironic that you accuse me of treating my computers like a hobby considering that most Mac users I've seen use them to do hobby work, unless they work for some VFX house for graphics design place and they actually get to get paid for that shit.

I hate to break it to you, but Apples aren't really mainstream in the typical computer sense. Apples are more about being "trendy" which is something hipsters are totally into, along with doing things because they are ironic. The type of people who would feel special because they owned some expensive toy that let them do pointless bullshit while they write poetry and drink PBR.

Incremental to someone who does frequent upgrades, but to someone who uses the same version of Office until they absolutely have to buy a new version (which is probably the majority of folks out there, since so many machines are still on XP), its a bit of a shocker, and I doubt most people know how to use the hot keys to a large extent. Power users? Sure. Your typical schlub, which comprises the bulk of the user base? Nope.

Again, I can understand the need to make some changes to the UI, but when you're doing a dramatic shift, give folks the option to flip back to the UI of the previous version. I really don't want to have to spend hours teaching myself how to use the new file manager program just so I can copy something from one folder to another. My job (and hell, my hobbies even) don't focus on moving files around, so the fancy stuff is pointless from my perspective, and I don't care how pretty it looks, if I can't make sense out of it, then it doesn't do me any good.