Good Guy with a Gun myth

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Bickendan, May 14, 2021.

  1. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    23,924
    Ratings:
    +28,474
    is basically making the argument to fight fire with fire.

    • popcorn popcorn x 2
  2. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,291
    Ratings:
    +22,372
    I think he's conflating several issues.

    While I agree his friend made the right call, that's because there was sanctuary available. That's not the case in all mass shootings - though running into one is not generally wise, there have been several that have been stopped by civilians, going back to the first one generally identified as a spree shooting, the Texas Bell Tower in the 60s. Prior to that they existed of course but generally weren't categorized in the same way - one civilian attempting to murder many others with a weapon with no motive was not a widespread phenomenon. I think it's this lack of identifiable motive that really shocked the public, because it destroyed the illusion of safety.

    Two, I don't think the overwhelming number of people need to be conditioned to kill - in self-defense. I would be shocked if the number wasn't much larger capable of such action, as opposed to the 4% he cites. He's talking about killing on command, which is different than protecting others, let alone yourself. He also seems to be conflating that number with the number that are actually successful in stopping shootings, and that's a far greater combination of factors than just intent.

    He's definitely right that most people aren't going to make a positive impact at a mass shooting due to lack of training. Of course, it's quite possible the shooter lacks that training themselves. If you do run into one that is well trained, you are probably just adding to the body count, and even if you aren't, you are likely to fail, simply because the shooter has the initiative and doesn't have to wait to confirm targets.

    Interesting video though, and I like Beau a lot, thanks for sharing!
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  3. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    12,995
    Ratings:
    +10,845
    I would complain if it was Obi-Wan who posted a video with no explanation of what it was about or why it was worth a poster's time to watch, so fair's fair.

    What's the gist of this?
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,291
    Ratings:
    +22,372
    While I certainly understand that take, IMO Beau's a good watch and very insightful even when I don't agree 100%. I will generally watch anything anyone posts by him even without context personally.

    Beau's a former police trainer that has quite a lot to say on a number of topics in his expertise. In this case, it's debunking the Good Guy with a Gun Myth and why there's considerable evidence that the overwhelming majority of people even when armed are not credible actors in stopping mass shootings.
  5. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    60,679
    Location:
    'twixt my nethers
    Ratings:
    +27,630
    Therefore everyone should be deprived of the option. :dayton:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    10,508
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +7,626
    :yes:
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2