Hypothetical, if ISIS targeted an American High School

So my last thread, about an 11 year shooting an 8 year old dead managed 6 pages with no-one taking on the stated question. A bit disappointing I will admit, it was in no way meant to be a trap but rather a real discussion point.

The most interesting, ok maybe outrageous thing to come out of it was GTurner deciding ISIS are about to march on and start shooting up American High Schools. To date, this has never happened, and let’s hope it stays that way, but it does raise an interesting question. – how would you react if ISIS did shoot up an American School?

Lets not limit it to gun proponents, lets get everyone involved. ISIS is a common enemy after all. While we are at it, lets have some supplementary questions –

• How would your reaction differ to this act of terrorism than when a conventional American school shoot ‘em up occurs? It appears that people tend to take these things in their stride as the act is now normalised and expected. Would you feel differently if it was ISIS attacking a school? Again, question for everyone.
• If you would have a different reaction, does that make you question yourself and American society in general? If, and not wanting to pre-suppose your reactions here, if you have a more emotive/angry/outrage reaction about ISIS doing it than just an American punk
• What sort of reaction/response would you like to see both in schools in the US and by the US government in general if such a thing were to occur? Does this in any way differ from the scale and type of reaction you would like (not expect) to happen when a conventional school shooting tragedy occurs.

Discuss.

I think a more interesting question would be: How would you react if a C130 gunship obliterated a US school killing 30 teachers and students while trying to hit a militant group attacking other militants.

Nah, feel free to start that thread if you want, but lets keep it to people shooting up schools please.

Your other thread posed the question: "what does it take before you, the individual, not society think, Christ enough is enough? School shootings every other week? Does it take your own kid to be killed in school/kindergarten? Where is the line that you personally have?"

I think this was a rhetorical question. Gun proponents use incidents such as this to advocate more guns, not less. The rest of us are already on the other side of the line.

As to the current question: "how would you react if ISIS did shoot up an American School?"

Gun proponents would use this to advocate more guns. The rest of us would be looking for causes, methods, and means to prevent a recurrence.

I think that if ISIS were responsible for as many killing in the US as the gun lobby, there'd be martial law by now.

Well, that might certainly be true. The difference however is quite clear. If ISIS were to do it, it would be with a clear political motive, which actually does make it worse. So far most shootings in the States seem to be perpetrated by various isolated nutjobs.

Armalyte is correct. Bad as these isolated incidents are, they do not represent an organized effort. I suspect that ISIS is easier to fight, because organization requires communication, communication is traceable. Therefore actions can be prevented.

The arguments in favor of gun control would disappear forever.

So you're advocating an armed revolt in response to poor judgement by the military? Interesting.

I didn't say that.

But it would put to sleep the argument forever that the American people can always count on their government to protect them.

Is it our gunship or someone else's? Is Canada trying to hit the ISIS militants outside of the school?

To be logical, I guess it would have to be another country's C130. This would also allay Dayton's call to arms against the government.

Can you post a link to where the "gun lobby" has actually killed someone?

Perhaps an NRA meeting where death squads were formally organized and target lists distributed.

I'm pretty sure other nations do no fly AC-130 gunships

Would you believe a Mounty in a Piper Cub?

I doubt such an attack could kill 30 American students and teachers.

There will almost certainly be ISIS attacks on the mainland of western countries. It is inevitable with our citizens being members and fighting for them. So the idea of a terrorist attack on home soil and even a school isn't as absurd as it sounds. However, do I think that some untrained, gun-wielding moron is going to be able to spot a terrorist and defend abley? Jesus wept, half of these idiots think the school kid in Texas with his science project is evidence an ISIS terrorist undercover! For as much as there is a small chance that arming kids and teachers might somehow foil at attack, I'm fairly sure that potentially hundreds of guns moving around schools every day of the week is going to increase the risk of injury to pupils and teachers, not decrease it. Hell, we've already had several incidents of teachers being stabbed in schools in the UK. I shudder to think the carnage that'd be possible if it were a gun and not a knife. It's why, when I read absurd suggestions like gturner's "arm the kids to avoid school shootings" I frankly think that some of you are living in a fantasy world totally detached from reality.

As for how the reaction would be different? Just look at the professional grief industry that immediately grew out of 9/11. Foreign bad guys = evil. American bad guys = crackpots for which we have no responsibility.

A slightly disingenuous comment. The gun lobby, while contributing to the continuation, did not commit the crime.

Ahhhh, here we go with the nutjob line again.

Why is an American a detached nutjob when he commits these crimes, and an ISIS shitbag representing a brand of politics? If one perverts a religion to suit their own objectives and take life, does that not make a person a nutjob as well? Hell, apply that to anyone who uses religion to commit crime. It's said that the oregon guy was motivated by militant atheism and/or a dislike of Christianity. Is that really a million miles apart from ISIS?

Has anyone ever actually advance that argument? Governments aren't omnipotent.

Logic fail. It's not about whether ISIS are nutjobs, they most certainly are, it's about the level of organisation involved. If a nutjob entity like ISIS kills 200 civilians on American soil that is all in service of a single, specific idea. If twenty nutjob individuals kill ten each, those deaths will be all over the place and thus do not have the same political impact.

With all the high school shootings, why would they even attempt that?

They'd be better off shooting up a military base.

So, how do you explain it to the mother of dead school child. Don't worry, your kid was killed by a frustrated 'misunderstood' product of society rather than an ISIS. As such, you shouldn't get as upset about it??

The thrust of my thread was to explore if/why we will attribute values on the atrocity based upon who did it.

Now I can agree, if a high school got shot up and targeted by ISIS I would be on the side of get the military and blow seven shades of shit out of them. I expect I would not be alone in that. What I don't understand is why is there not as large a feeling of outrage when schools are targeted on a regular basis my your average run of the mill school shooter. Now before GTurner and CaptainMoonman pile in, I'm no way suggesting military action. What I mean is surely the scale/force of achieving desired results to ensure it does not happen again should be no less great.

Responsibility does not imply that.

Am I the only one that read Gturner's "arm schoolkids in case ISIS attacks" comment as a bit tongue in cheek?

The guys a fantasist, no point in paying attention to what he says. I’m completely skipping over the arming school kids part of it myself, but using the what if ISIS attacks as a comparator against the attacks we now see on a regular basis as a thread discussion point. Thats the purpose of these boards is it not?

What is probably inevitable is having a small contingent of armed, trained security at every school. This isn't that extreme. Schools are pretty much full of people only about 8 hours of the day so hiring and scheduling some trained security is not that difficult.

He says so much fucked up shit I really don't know. He's either on a massive wind up, or he's Dayton-esque.

To be honest, considering some of the utterly sincere batshit stuff I've read from Americans (and sometimes Brits) online, including here, it can sometimes be hard to tell, especially without the use of smilies, etc.

Appeal to emotion will get you nowhere with me. I know I've been away a long time but surely you can recall that.

Yes, I understood that, and I showed you that yes, we can. Dead is dead, that much is true. The kids won't be more dead by ISIS killing them than by anyone else doing it. That doesn't change the fact that an orchestrated murder of hundreds of individuals in support of a single demented cause does more damage to society than twenty different ones for multiple different reasons killing the same amount of people, thus, the former is the greater evil.

I would've thought I made myself clear in my previous post but I guess I had to elaborate?

Turn the Middle East into a parking lot.