If that's really Borgs . . .

I think a big part of it was him being naive as well, he was making the new site and just assumed it would make sense to have peoples usernames reserved, and when people pointed out that it wasn't on stopped that idea. That doesn't excuse anything after, but in my eyes what he did is absolutely no different to how some people threatened to take a copy of the board backup and use it to create a new discussion board elsewhere, effectively signing people up for a new board without their permission.

There is a slight difference between a copy of a board you signed up for already and wanted to be a part of, and being signed up to a board with an entirely different focus that is controversial at best and illegal at worst.

If Borgs is so different, then why did he almost immediately bring up this stuff and his apparent belief he still owns the place? And immediately ran to the Help Desk to complain about some nuts and bolts thing on the board? Seems like the same guy to me.

What Tamar said. Borgs is still Borgs. Same old shithead.

Bailey nails it.

If we want to look at it through that lens, it can be argued that borgs was setting up an adjunct board with the database he owned. Similarly, Elwood and Nick were planning to set up a new board which (had it happened) would have involved stealing a database that borgs owned. Maybe nobody's clean in all of that. At any rate, it's time to get past it. Nobody wants to look like Muad with his bit about half-time.

The board itself was not about illegal activity, that is my point. Was it wrong of him to do, yes. Was he bringing people into illegal activities without their consent, no.

Using torrents is not illegal, sharing torrents is not illegal, talking about torrents is not illegal, being pre-registered on a board that talks about torrents is not illegal.

Was it wrong of him to do, yes. Was he bringing people into illegal activities without their consent, no.

That is my point on this. There is plenty to debate and discuss on the whole situation, not helped by the fact that it all took place nearly a decade ago, and even principles have differing recollections. So when there is something clear cut like this, we should clear it up and move on.

See my post to Nick, I'm not trying to split hairs, I'm trying to keep the discussion as grounded in reality as possible. Due to the length of time and the fact that only certain aspects were known to certain people (and now even those few have differing memories) mean this conversation by nature is going to be hard to keep grounded. When there is something clear cut incorrect, I'd like to get it out of the way.

I agree signing people up for something they didn't volunteer for was wrong and is not something I would do. I'm only saying that he did not bring anyone into illegal activities. Questionable yes, considering that questionableness, something I would want to be associated with, no, but illegal, no.

Just wanted to clear that up.

As a joke? What, was he just supposed to ignore the past, pretend he hadn't been double secret banned for 8 years? Like you would let him.

He acknowledged it in a humorous way, I and others responded in kind, saying 'no way', he responded, still in good humor saying it was dropped and not an issue. Even acknowledged it was a screw up on his part and that he was in the wrong.

So that was good.

He's also just ignored your heavy handed attempt to rile him up, which is also good.

Rile him up? No.

Let him lie? Also No.

Double secret banned? Oh, bullshit. He was openly banned and it was no secret why.

He was going to use the database to set up his new torrent site, effectively signing up all the users of Wordforge (at the time) as users on his torrent site without telling them, which he said quite openly was going to be used to circumvent things like copyrights and paywalls. Hence, illegal activity.

Borgs was setting up a site with which to pirate other people's content. And signing all of us up as members. Is that clear enough for you, or are you going to persist in your "aw, shucks" dismissal of it?

I think I get where Ancalagon is coming from on this. Merely being signed up to a torrent site isn't indicative of any illegal activity on your part. However, it is the kind of thing that could get people in trouble with their employers or screw them over when job hunting, especially if their usernames are associated with their real names. So what he did was kind of a big deal.

Not sure he really thought through the implications. At any rate, there is a difference between reckless and malicious. He can't really engage in either behavior as a mere user. And if he does, he will be banned (apparently for the first time). That's the same approach we take with any other member.

Then can you please explain these public statements and others like them that you made for years (and to my knowledge Lanz never publicly corrected):

What's to explain?

He was banned and then at some point during one of the board upgrades or issues his account got erased. It's hard to keep someone banned when their account no longer exists hence he could have come back a long time ago. It doesn't mean that was a desired outcome...just a fact that he could have if he had wanted to.

If someone tried to burn my house down, that is the last person I'd invite to stay in my guest room.

Whoa, what did I miss?

I actually talked to Borgs slightly after the Incident, and he had nothing good to say about Elwood at the time. To put my position in perspective, I wasn't even a member of WF then, and my knowledge of his shenanigans were the (many) threads about WF Drama over at TK and talking to Borgs on MSN Messenger. Now, that would throw my bias toward Borg's side, but since then I've joined WF and gotten to know Elwood somewhat decently and have a pretty good read on his character. It's very fair to say that Borgs exaggerated and distorted his side of the story when I interviewed him about it.

It's been nine years since it's happened? I haven't kept track. People do change in that amount of time. Hopefully, he's matured and acquired some wisdom and better judgment in that time, but comments like him belonging to the UK Pirate Party (is this a current party or something that's fallen to the wayside?) doesn't really speak to his credit.

Realizing that we wouldn't be offering any form of authority should he be welcomed back in, I'd still be cautious before throwing open the doors to him. There is a reason why the previous administrations don't want to entertain the idea of letting him back in, and their input on the matter should not be taken lightly. If my opinion on the matter means anything, I'd actually vote against welcoming him back. It's not a question of whether he's changed or not or if he poses a threat to the board or not. We stand to lose too much in the loss of long term members if he does come back because of the bad blood between them. It's not worth losing Lanzman, likely Tamar and possibly Elwood -- three contributing members -- to gain one back. That's not a good trade off and it hurts the board in the end.

Ancalagon knew very well there would be people against the idea which is why he just went and invited him back without discussion so one knew about it until he was already here posting threads in the Help Desk and Introduce Yourself making it a fait accompli. Since he issued Borgs an engraved invitiation he is hardly going to turn around and kick him out making himself look stupid in the process.

I saw that after I posted; I agree with your assessment. I hope that those who were dead againsr Borges returning don't impulsively leave because of this.

Tamar, you should really stop making shit up. Especially in a thread where you've already been exposed as lying to the board for years, its only making you look worse.

The issue was discussed months ago. In the thread where Ted was discussed. It was decided Ted would remain banned but every other ban was lifted. That is when I sent Borgs a 5 line FB message explaining that he wasn't banned any more and welcome to return.

No engraved invitation. A simple headsup that his double secret ban had been lifted. But b/c we aren't FB friends (Heck, I didn't even know his name, Nick had to look him up for me) the message went to Borgs' 'Other' folder and he didn't see it until recently.

So far only you and Lanz seem to have taken issue with it initially. And until Bick bumped this even that had died down.

Borgs is back, he's admitted he fucked up, he's posting good threads and making good suggestions, he's not going anywhere, get over it, move on.

If the response to his Introduction forum thread is any indication most members either don't care or are excited to see him back.

And that's all I have to say about that.

No ones left in the 10 days since he's been back.

Heck, aside from Lanz and Tamar, no one has even expressed strong opposition to him being back.

Did you check the dates before posting? This topic had died down days ago.

Part of the reason I started the thread about the Shelter and Help Desk's location

I never lied to the board for years...what the fuck are you talking about?

There was no double secret ban you moron. His information was lost during one of the upgrades which made him a non-member. We didn't have his IP on file or anything so it was a fact that he could have rejoined any time he wanted to and we would have had no way of knowing unless he rejoined as Borgs. We never would have went out of our way to invite him back because of all the shit he pulled and threats he made back in the day.

As for moving on...you make it more tempting every day.

How the hell was Borgs the only account to be accidentally lost? There's nothing wrong with if his account was intentionally deleted back in the day but it is absurd to suggest that his account was just lost.

I doubt that it was lost accidentally, hell I may have even deleted it, who knows. At this point it isn't really relevant. Arguing about things that we can barely remember straight is not really helpful.

It wasn't just his...a bunch of them were lost like my niece and best friend's accounts.

If Borgs was deleted purposefully I knew nothing about it. I certainly wouldn't have agreed with it...I don't think anyone should be deleted...not even him.

As he said, it doesn't matter. He's here and here to stay and we'll see where that gets us in time. Let's hope Anc's correct and that he's changed and grown. But I strongly suggest that he never be offered a place on the staff again.

I think we are all agreed on that. Setting aside rumored and real shenanigans, he was an interesting poster, who brought lively discussions. That's a good thing.

Elwood was a little too aggressive with the account pruning back in the day. Liet, Tamar's niece, and a few others were accidentally deleted (along with about 1000 others, the vast majority of which were signed up but never posted). Borgs' account was deliberately deleted. I don't remember when.

Nice.

I suppose I was told it was an accident because it was no mystery I would be against deleting anyone and I would answer questions with the lie.

Really, really old news now but I hope this is the kind of shit you new owners will leave in the past.

Yeah, we'd like to, but then, some people keep dredging it up. So, deleted deliberately? Accidental? It seems nobody quite remembers any more. That should be a clear enough statement that enough time has gone by for borgs to get another chance at hanging out here.

Has Cheeky Monkey been unbanned yet?