These are comments from James Marsden this week, who had a supporting role in Superman Returns. Now, I understand what he's saying but to me its something of a crying shame that the one hero who represents complete positivity and the good side of humanity is now uncool. Perhaps this is the reason that the positivity of Star Trek has now become unfashionable as well and why the retunbr of Indiana Jones didn't go down quite as well as Lucas might have liked (its worth notiong that Shia LeBouf came out this week and said Indy hasn't changed, it was just the audience that had)? It's a sad day when audiences would rather see a shit world then an uplifting one.
Superman has to represent all that is good and right in the world or the dark cynicism of a character like Batman is meaningless. Perhaps if Luthor were a bit more sinister, and they had more screen time together, then Supes would've had more to play against. Force Superman to explain why humanity should be saved instead of having him do it, just because. Having Superman's boy scout righteousness play against the other characters is one of the best things about the Justice League: Animated Series, IMHO.
Yeah, but Justice League Animated is geek TV. Hell I've been a Supes fan for 30 years but I can't, as much as I might wanbt to, sit through cartoons (except maybe the Fleicsher ones). Supes will die of the mainstrem audience isn't actered for and it doesn't follow that everyone who gies to see a Supes movie would have also been to see Batman movies.
Yes and no. I'll explain, he is out of date mostly because his iconic success makes him a cliche of himself. Added to that his perfection makes him unrelatable to everyone, heck the kryptonite vulnerability wasn't even added until years after the character was created. Superman is not outdated because his stories still sell. Movies and TV series (live action and animated) continue to draw a sizable audience despite his habit of wearing underwear on the outside of his tights. I'd imagine the comics are still selling as well. Personally, I'm not a big Superman fan, not because he isn't dark enough but because he isn't human enough.
Clyde's point nails it. Superman hasn't been a hero for decades, if ever. He's a step past that and qualifies as a demi-god.
The trouble with the last movie was it was essentially a remake of the first--only with a gayer costume and a bastard son that Supes abandons for, what, five years? That dissonance was the problem with the movie--not that it wasn't dark enough. The whole "baby-daddy" angle ruined it for me.
I mainly liked the new directions taken in 'Superman Returns,' although I agree that there needed to be a bigger physical antagonist...Lex Luthor using kryptonite on Supes isn't exactly bold or new. I don't think Superman should be made dark, because the character is such an expression of optimism. I think if the producers really want to go darker and edgier in the next film, they should plunge the entire world into darkness, turn the people against Superman, yet have Superman emerge to lead humanity out of the crisis. I'd build a whole script around one concept from the first movie: "They can be a great people, Kal-El, if they wish to be; they only lack the light to show the way..."
The problem is in most superman media he doesn't have any internal struggle. He lacks substance. They need to play up more the pain he must feel being righteous in a world so corrupted, the drudgery of having to save humanity from its same mistakes over and over again.
^ Oh god no, please no 2 hour teenage angst film. Superman is not dated. You just have cookie cutter writers who only know how to copy what's hip at the moment. Superman is a solid upstanding good guy but is forced to deal in a world that isn't. There's lots to do there, you just need a great writer who understands that.
I actually think that Superman IV wasn't a bad concept, it was just shamefully lacking in execution. I like the idea of Superman taking on a Herculean task in the name of saving humanity only to realize, in the end, that there are some things people will have to do for themselves. Superman can change the course of mighty rivers and bend steel in his bare hands, but, ultimately, he may not be able to change people's minds. To make that idea more effective, the story needs a compelling person to argue AGAINST Superman's actions, to say that it shouldn't be Superman's role to fix humankind.
Superman out of date? If Truth and Justice are out of date . . . If fighting for the right is out of date . . . If protecting the weak and helpless is out of date . . . If using everything you have for the betterment of others is out of date . . . Superman is an ideal towards which we should all aspire. He represents the best that we can be. Never mind the powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men, Superman is a moral and ethical champion the likes of which this sad, self-absorbed world desperately needs. A man whose word is always good. A man of honor. A man who does what is right, no matter the cost to himself. If that's out of date, then I'm off to my unabomber shack in the wilds of Montana and humanity can go fuck itself.
I don't think it's positivity that's uncool. There are a lot of problems with Superman (and Star Trek and the latest Indiana Jones) that have nothing to do with positivity or darkness or any of that. The main one is that when you look at the scripts, they have been rather unimaginative retreads. Unfortunately for them, I can fire up "Superman I," "Superman II" or "TWOK" or "Raiders" whenever I want. By contrast, "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" and each of the "X-Men" trilogy movies was reasonably original. If the notion that the cool kids want to see darker heroes were true, they should have flocked to see "Superman Returns," in which Supes acts like a stalker and is Lois's baby daddy. What's ironic to me is that Richard White, Marsden's character, was one of the most attractive things about the film, and he was a good, wholesome milk-drinking guy.
Given Superman was born in the depression as a New Deal avenger of the downtrodden, and we've got another depression coming, he's poised to become MORE relevant.
Shia LeBouf is wrong. Indy 4 wasn't a bad movie because the audience has changed, it was a bad movie because it was just a bad movie that attempted to recapture the feeling of the originals without in fact realising what it was that made them good. I'd say no to playing up the pain he feels, but I would like to see situations where being good doesn't always work. So he grabs a criminal and turns them into police, what happens if that criminal is then let free on a technicality and goes on to re-offend? Ultimately the world is an imperfect place and doing the right thing doesn't always give the right result, even if Superman is going to stay perfectly good it would work to acknowledge the problem. It even makes him more impressive, sticking to his convictions and morals when it would be easier to abandon them.
Indiana Jones didn't change, he was just older and there were aliens. I fully have faith in Lucas and Spielberg to make a Young Indiana Jones series, it's just finding a replacement for the irreplaceable Harrison Ford.
Which I found no less ridiculous than an ancient Hebrew chest that spews angels of death, a collection of magic rocks that is the source of life and prosperity for primitive villages, or a cup that rejuvenates those who drink from it.
Ok, lets be quite clear about this... This is Superman.... This is a pretty boy douche in a jacket who runs fast....
Too lazy to go dig up Nick's post (or edit this down to the point I want to hit) but I would submit that the fact that Big Blue doesn't have any internal struggle is his appeal. All of us have things we're tortured by; temptations, and chances to compromise our integrity. We usually know what the "right thing" to do is, but for whatever reason we hold off on doing it. Watching Superman (or real people who behave the way he does) gives us the support we need to do the right thing. It may sound hokey, but heck, if Superman can do what he knows is right, then so can I. I still maintain it is high time to bring back the Lone Ranger (in a straight-up format, not this fucking 2003 the WB "reimagining"). Shit, when Clayton Moore was cast in the role he became the Lone Ranger. No drinking or gambling; no profanity. He never went out in public without the mask. He was probably crazy as heck, but infinitely cool.
Well, to be faor he was the only one playing Superman at the time. Brandon Routh was cast after Reeve had died...and Dana Reeve threw her support behind Routh, so who knows who Chris might ultimately have preferred.
Well he was on the show about three times so i think he would have gone with the smallville chap who's name i can't remember.
Little too messianic for my taste, though if Hollywood could somehow cast Senator Obama as the chosen one ...
Supes is still relevant if you give him a good story, Superman Returns wasn't that story. I think I mentioned something like this last year, but here goes. Instead of having him coming back from Krypton, have him coming out a coma so deep they thought he was dead, 10 years after he and Doomsday had knockdown (start off with the fight, or show it on a montage of newspaper and TV reports before the opening titles). He awakens to a much-changed world, one that's suffered 9/11 and has Luthor as president - played by Malkovich in full Cyrus the Virus evil, every word dripping with malice and venom. Image the scenes! S: "Luthor!" L: "Please Superman, we're old friends, no need to stand on ceremony. You can call me 'Mr President'. Or 'Sir' if that makes you more comfortable" Base the action in the ME (read Iraq allegories if you wish, I just wanted to bring in Black Adam) with Luthor pursuing something in Khandaq. Supes interferes as Black Adam starts to dismantle the US taskforce - now that's a fight scene, irresistible forces and unmovable objects, punches that send shockwaves across the scene shattering windows, sending people sprawling. And something like Supes using the USS Reagan as leverage to give a kick - that's the sort of thing that says you have a couple of demigods. After a while Supes and Adam agree a detente, Supes will see what Luthor's up to in exchange for not bringing the fight to the US. Another scene with Supes saying this "This is a job for" with a quick cut to Clark Kent standing in a doorway with some flowers, and Lois' voice saying "Clark Kent!" So we get to see Supes strength, and also his alter ego's as an investigative reporter. Lead up to the final scenes in Khandaq, where Luthor has been excavating an alien vessel to power a ring he found (geeks will note the corpse in the ship is Abin Sur's), and cue a three way face-off between Supes, Adam and a ringslinging Luthor. Luthor appears victorious, Adam smashed into the ground and starts crushing Supes with his GL ring empowered will whilst gloating - unaware he's being filmed live and that Adam's survived his assault. Luthor's nose up to a choking Superman and ranting that this time he'll make sure the Man of Steel won't be returning, and that Doomsday was his doing, he cries out as we hear a tearing noise - Adams ripped off his arm and flung it with all his strength, rendering Luthor a normal man again. Supes, in pain and tortured won't allow Adam to kill Luthor, even it means fighting Adam to the death. Out of respect for Supes morals and fighting spirit Adam agrees. Ends with a one-armed Luthor sitting a shithole jail, watching a TV provided by Adam so he can watch whilst VP Ross is sworn in as Pres, and shaking Supes hand, saying that after a dark decade some light is back in the world. And Luthor muttering something like "not over yet." Post credits have an exhausted pilot wandering through the desert shouting out mayday into a radio, he finds the ring on Luthors missing arm holds and falls on his back and we see his nametag - 'Jordan'. Cue GL movie in the future... Speaking for myself, that beats Spacey being an unfunny Dr Evil, single-motherhood and a load of crap about crystals.
