Issues

With all the drama and things being blown out of proportion and fighting and arguing and bickering...gah!...it is going nowhere.

However...it is also true that there are things that could be/need to be worked on, improved, what have you.

I thought maybe the smaller group in here could start voicing what they think some of them are and we could discuss possible solutions, without it turning into a massive free for all of accusations and drama.

Off the top of my head:

1. Turn around time.--Things take WAAY too long sometimes to be decided on and implemented. Trying out a new forum shouldn't be a difficult decision that requires the request to be asked over and over. What is the deal with the White Room? Unfortunately, many things go this way.

2. Discussions that lead nowhere.--Talk and talk and nothing happens...even if a concensus comes about. See: Tighter avatar restrictions and nudity outside WR.

3. Rules that are too vague.--Not all of them...some need to have wiggle room a bit, but surely we can nail down more concretely things such as personal information, what it is and exactly what is a violation and what is a troll. If we are having an extreme trolling rule..WTF does that entail..I've been here the whole time and even modded the RR and I'm still not certain. There has to be a happier medium between leaving people hanging and confused and giving the staff the ability it needs to act.

4. Not keeping up with the chores-- The quotes database is an example. I had no idea about it or that it was my job. If you look at the rules area, returning from bans, Chris is still listed as a contact point for returning, there were a couple of holiday banners made, approved and never put up for the holidays. Mods who don't move threads to their proper places or doesn't comment in the thread when they do or leave redirects. Oh this is little stuff, but it adds up.

5. Consistancy-- There isn't a lot. Let's face it and figure it out. There is leaving options open and then there is being unfair to our "customers". Maybe a ban structure should be made.

6. I still think we need a bitching and moaning or revert the Help Desk to looser rules of conduct because having one place for it would beat having it all over the fucking board disrupting everything.

That's just some stuff off the top of my head..I'm sure there is more to think about so let's see how a discussion goes in here.

I'd like to add an addendum.

One thing I've noticed is that there's a tendency where everyone will wonder if someone asked a poster to do something, like last week with some of the reporting posts things.

So I think we should create a thread in which, if we do something, we say so. Sort of a staff log.

Isn't there a board upgrade available? Has that happened yet?

I guess I think we should make more of an effort to get things done ASAP.

Or you guys...LOL...old habits die hard!

The only quibble I have is with the 'rules are too vague' line. They're supposed to be vague, yes, it means but they're what stops this place turning into a neutered TNZ.
is the price we pay for letting a few kiddies snap at the grown-ups' ankles.

I seem to remember an admin log...

There is vague and vague.

If Personal Information shouldn't be played with...it behooves us to define that.

Take this clusterfuck:

No personal information was used...NONE. Just a troll with the threat of same...is that...and should that be as bad as posting someone's name and address?

Is nigger extreme trolling or not? Are death threats extreme trolling or not?

These need more definition...at least some.

Aye. We need...Internal guidelines.

No. If TBBS taught us anything, it's that the tighter you make the rules, the more the rules-lawyers will exploit them. Keep it broad and invoke mod judgement.

Except in matters of actual fact, of course. Personal Information, for example, is relatively simple to define: real name (if unrevealed), phone numbers, address, place of employment, names of spouse/children (if any) and so forth. IP address is NOT personal info . . . too easy to discover.

See what I mean?

Which is why transparency, sunlight, and my pantented lazy mod style are the perfect thing to keep the internet lawyers at bay.

Agreed. I have just given up on trying to 'rush' TPTB

Closely related to pt. 1.

That's the point. Given how most are still pretty much the rules I wrote I feel I can explain (thought that was commonly known, tho): the reason why they are so vague is because on the one hand, you have TK. On the other hand, we have TNZ anno 2003. We didn't want either, so I opted for the steel claw in a velvet glove - something that wouldn't disturb but can be invoked if things get out of hand (extreme trolling was originally thought of as trying to run people off the board, like a never ending flood of racial slurs etc). Note that there were/are absolutes: the nazi rules on the Austrian server. No wiggle room there, post that shit and you're gone. The personal information rule is supposed to be an absolute too, but at least I waived it sometimes, mostly for you

Also closely related to pt. 1. Of course RL takes precedence, but most admins are posting here daily

There is that and there is losing good people from the small pool we have. If there was consistency, you'd have been banned the first time you posted personal info. Tasvir wouldn't have annoyed us for years since he posted ecky's full name once years ago. I see that like I see small business operating: good customers may get a credit line, may come back to pay tomorrow, and if they drink a can of Coke while in the shop, we'll first see if they pay it and then send the police after them. When, OTOH, an unknown comes just in guns blazing and breaking rules left and right, it's probably a customer we don't want anyway and s/he shall be removed.

I think the HD should be for technical problems exclusively and bitching about policy goes to the RR. But that's just me.


Here's some problems I can think of:

• Every n00b we get gets sprayed with acid after waiting a week in the admission line. Would you stay?
• High profile posters like Storm should get leeway but they shouldn't be completely immune. I mean, he was banned, then he came back and racked up 2 warnings withing ten seconds. I see that as spitting in Elwood's face.
• Taking everybody seriously is certainly important, but then, THIS IS WORDFORGE. You can call a spade a spade, and types like gul with their never ending policy trolling should be called out. Yes, by the admins. Everybody knows what's going on and yet we pretend 'customer service'. IMHO if the customer feels so bad about your place let's all be happy for him that there is a free market.
• Some are allowed to do their best to run off other members. Tolerating this isn't open minded, it's stupid. If they want their private circle jerk they can open their own place like Enty and apostle did ()

To clarify, I am not necessarily talking about changing the rules in a public way....except maybe the personal info...because they way we are defining it..Storm and Gul are owed apologies because no personal information was actually used and it was just trolling and no one should have banned.

I am talking about clarifying the rules, making a reference in here and stickying the thread for the benefit of the staff.

Like I said, we needs guidelines and precedent recording.

Here's my issue!

30 seconds ago I paid for another full quarter of hosting for the board and the IRC network for all the thugs and nutjobs. We're good for three more months.

You evil bastard.

Clyde’s Guide for New Members


Here’s a quick start guide for anybody new to Wordforge.

Forum Descriptions

• Red Room: Heated debates, insults, inflammatory topics
• Gray Room: Other boards
• Green Room: Relaxing hassle free forum
• Blue Room: Blogs
• Wordforge Labs: Science, technology
• Workshop: Writing
• Gold Room: Advice
• Iron Room: Fitness
• Media Central: Movies, television, music
• Press Start: Games
• FAQ: Frequently asked questions
• Announcements: Board announcements
• Help Desk: Help

Forum Decorum

• Use common sense
• Respect the privacy of other members
• Don’t post anything illegal
• Consider that not everyone wants to be surprised by graphic or pornographic images

Note: The Gray Room and Blue Room are subscription forums

Yea, that was pretty much what I thought could be The Rules 2.0. That, a few supermods (no forum mods except for experts if we have any), and a healthy FUCK YOU when they try rule lawyerin'.

A couple minor edits. Yes/no?

Looks damn good to me.

It's too bad common sense isn't common.

Sure! I was going to leave the specific moderation out of the quick start guide but that's fine with me.

And input is welcome from everybody! Change a little, change a lot, keep it as is or come up with something entirely different.

Threats of banishment won’t attract new members and will be nothing but another challenge for certain existing members. Behave or else! doesn’t work, time to try a new tact. We’re all members and it's better to focus on our common ground, the things we all can understand and generally agree upon.

• Respect privacy
• Nothing illegal
• No forcing graphic/pornographic images on anyone

Yeah, "As will attempts to attack the board or disturb its services by technical means" isn't really needed since that's a given.

What does "respect privacy" mean?

Different people will define it differently. This is a board that allows trolling in select areas and this is an important issue..one where defining the boundaries will save a lot of confusion and future headaches.

Personally, I think it should just mean no posting of private information such as name, address, phone number, place of work without permission or the poster previously posting it themselves.

I don't think hints and "I know where you work and am going to do something" type things should fall under it. It's a troll. It's not nice but no worse than Tasvir saying he's going to behead everyone. It should fall under trolling rules.

Oh, and I don't want anything done about it, because I am pretty sure that she really wouldn't...

But how was Cass saying she would sell my personal information to someone else on the board any less of a violation than Storm's hinting he would call Gul's work. Especially when we know for a fact she has that information?

Doing it out in the open, with my privacy track record, a attached (at least in spirit) in a thread about getting banned from TK might contain a hint. And I don't archive these things. You're completely safe from me.

Of course I think I have earned a stern warning via PM actually doing it would get me banned. As does everybody else who thinks this is fun.

Like I said, I wasn't worried.

And I really think that is the best thing to do with hints and allegations used as trolls...a reminder that actually doing such a thing would earn someone a trip out the door. Actually posting the information needs to be the "crime" so to speak. IMO, of course.

The problem there is that you will get lots of people jumping over it since GE was banned for being a risk of giving away personal information of Elwoods. The first time someone has a threat made against them and nothing is done there will be cries of unfairness.

This will go over like a lead balloon, but I will say it anyway.

Maybe GE should be unbanned. Crafting the rule and making long term headaches based on rather than undoing a less than great decision, may not be the best decision for the board.

He obviously isn't releasing any real private information and him going on about his psycho girlfriend isn't going to earn him any gold stars here. In fact, odds are he won't come back even if you unban him.

I think holding on to this ban will be worse in the long run than letting him come back.

**braces for impact**

I agree that he should be unbanned under relaxed rules, however I don't agree that Elwood should have to unban him.

Ultimately Elwood is paying the bills and has a right to deny membership on this board to whoever he wants. If the rules regarding personal information are relaxed like you propose though the reason for his continued banning would have to be addressed otherwise it will blow up again at some point in future.