It's HIGH TIME the 2nd Amendment was REPEALED. Sorry Gunforge ,your guns must be TAKEN AWAY from you

Asked and answered. Learn to fucking read.

Learn to make a coherent argument. You were banging on about societal factors that lead to it being easy to find and harm people, then went to Europeans finding it easy to harm and rape. And yet the US has stabbing rates and rape rates much higher than Europe.

And yet you claim guns make you safe.

You're all over the fucking map, and it's a map of your mother's distended ringpiece after a bad Mexican.

And I don't mean Taco Bell.

And if you paid the fuck attention, I noted that data is more useful when you pay attention to local concentrations, just like in the states.

No, I pointed out the fact that they are more efficient for self defense, NOT that there are any guarantees. Don't try that weasely ratfuck routine with me.

Efficacy must be proven empirically, or it's just a fucking guess.

If guns are more efficient, then self-defence against stabbing or rape should lower the rates of stabbings and rapes.

So either the US would be even WORSE for stabbings and rapes than it is, or guns do jack fucking shit.

You need convincing that guns are more effective in competent hands?

Wrong. I only need to show one person successfully defending themselves. And then YOU need to look them in the eye and insist they shouldn't have had the option.

Bullshit false dichotomy. There is no way to predict that for sure, and you do not get to accept that risk on anyone else's behalf.

I need convincing they are worth the excessive death rate that seems to plague your society, in order to control a problem MINE doesn't have to anywhere near YOUR level without them.

Would I, individually, feel a bit more confident about not being raped if I had a gun? Possibly.

But I'm also a lot more fucking likely to die due to someone - possibly a family member - killing me with said gun.

And I've met my family. A rapist I might be able to talk down to oral.

I'm sure that's a great comfort to your local victims.

That's the end of it right there.

Your degenerate family is your problem. Your neighbors should still have the best option to defend against your clan.

LOL my degenerate family is 80 and asleep with a blanket over her and a Westie on her lap. I'm speaking in generics.

Though I still wouldn't try and talk my Mum down to oral, for obvious reasons.

Dentures.

The problem here is that UA is arguing assuming our case is a mirror of his.

He really wants guns to be easily accessible, and so will argue that should be the case regardless of it it makes things overall safer or not. He's not debating in good faith, so assumes we are as well.

It seems to be incomprehensible that what we are actually interested in is the evidence of what makes things safer and then pick our views on gun laws with that evidence.

I personally was a supporter of increased gun rights for a while not long after first joining TNZ/WF because I was swayed by the sort of shallow arguments being presented by UA in this thread. Yes I thought, it makes sense that if more people have guns they will discourage violence, like some society wide MAD scenario.

However I was then swayed back to gun restrictions by the fact that the argument and evidence stopped there.

This thread continues the trend of making gun proponents look like fucking toddlers.

I am adamantly against people buying firearms specifically for defense. In the world in which we currently live, that only adds fuel to the fire. Firearms are a tool and should be treated as such.

You should probably tag @Lanzman in this. UA is not the biggest guntard around by a long shot.

I work in the ultimately meaningless world of videogames, and even there one of the first questions when someone on my team brings me a cool sounding solution to a problem is "sounds great, how will we test/prove that". Because anyone who has done anything with analytics and statistics knows that even the most obvious sounding chains of cause and effect can actually not happen how you expect and are often really counter intuitive.

"I assume that..." or "I have a hunch that..." are great starting points, but if you can't come up with ways that they could be falsified then they are ultimately just that, your personal opinion, and hold very little evidential weight.

I believe matthunter works in science, so I'm sure he experiences the same thing on a much more serious level.

Says the person licking the taint of UA in the presence of the gun he owns and will probably kill her with when she does something he does not like or accidentally coughs in the middle of the night.

IF UA does not actually own a gun, then he is a complete hypocrite who does not believe in a word he says about guns making you safer and being needed in this violent society he lives in. Why would you not own a gun if they were so safe for your family and friends, and such an important safety item in the horrible US that is full of violent criminals who are all out to get your welder fortune and steal your fucking bicycle.

Absolutely. My opinions are my own. Yes statistics can say anything the founder wants the research to say. And, I also play video games in which guns are the main item of value. All I can say is in 4 decades as an adult, and a weak, “unprotected” one at that, if one looks for trouble, one will find trouble.

This thing is 34 pages long, is it basically the same old “Guns are bad, M’Kay” “No, Guns are cool!” thread that’s been happing for 20 years or has there been anything new to come up?

the first thing

OK, another poster has come back from the old days.

So is this one of the old racist incels of WF or is it cool? Or worse yet is it another fowl creature that exists off the stank of her worthless incel boyfriend like @Jenee

It is pretty much the same argument since guns were created.

I'm not sure.

I thought Sherlock was one of the names Ted used before he got Tamar in a tizzy an she unpersoned him, but I could be mistaken.

If you are referencing the target of @Jenee stank licking that would be @Uncle Albert. He is not nearly as awesome as a evil guy who cannot beat up a worthless english wizard boy who likes living under the stairs at his abusive parent's house. He wishes he was so lacking in bullying skills.

However, you will soon be told that I am the ultimate evil around here, which is also a sad state of affairs, and you really should ignore me now if you do not like wordwalls, misspellings, and annoying comments about the sex like of sham and dian (Jenee and Uncle Albert). If you need any other information about me I have a local stalker named @Ten Lubak who would love to show you his archive of shit I have said while being Tererune.

I got the account back back in 2018.

So he is Ted? Does that mean he is a fuzzy bear thing that makes semi amusing comments?

I am just wondering what sort of creature has appeared because I am not fully up on my historical documents of the long history of wrodforge. There is this range of creature from Storm to @Amaris.

Wow, you really have no idea about me. That’s cute.

Is this the longest time between posts we've ever had?

I was there when wordforge was birthed.

In my long history in the bowels of the interwebs I really had only straifed trekBBS and it's surrounding satellites on the rare occasion one of my victims ran here for cover.

I do hope you are one of the more amusing recurring characters from this place because sham and dian are really getting old, and the boy still has not grown pubes yet.

That is nice. I witnessed the birth of AOL onto the internet. I remember the days of text HTML clients. I have used things like KERMIT. The tech that formed WF wasn't even an idea in the minds of the internet when I was here at first. I fucked the first trolls and formed the parents of ANON.

I cut my teeth in the TBBs The Neutral Zone, walked the desolate plains of the Troll Kingdom, and attended the birth of wordforge.

Again, that is nice and all, but those places were formed by my influence (as a strong force in the original troll empires). When I was trolling and trekfanning on usenet and IRC, they went to web based message boards because they could regulate the membership because you could not do that shit on alt.* and people like me created the laws that govern trolling and netcoppong today.

I am just trying to explain, Thinbgs you call trolling from your history come from a chaotic pre WWW internet that I was a part of forming. I actually enjoy hearing about the history of places like this because I was busy with other things in anime fandom while TrekBBS and WF were establishing their history. I think while you were doing that I was fucking with 4chan moralfags when they went after scientology in the scieno wars. TK would have been decimated by the currents of that war. It was big enough to make real world news.

Just to give you an idea, I knew some of the trolls who inceptualized what would become Encyclopedia Dramatica. I knew some of the entries on their from experience.

So I am cool with your stories, but conceptually they are a bit quaint to me. Do not be insulted as some people have been