It's time for some disobedience.

This is the only feature I miss about the old software.

Though if we're going to have non-derp threads in the Res Room despite my hopes, I guess the lack of thread icons will also become burdensome.

Me too. It's something I've tried to replicate a hundred times over, but it just doesn't come out right. If it's cumbersome, I don't want it. It has to be intuitive, and easy to use, without interfering with the rest of the board software. If there's one thing vB had right, it was the comment system. XF's far more stable, and more modular, though, and I like that about it. The day I can get that comment system to work flawlessly, like it did on vB, I will be a happy man.

He's not. He's stuck his head in the sand and is pretending not to hear us.

I never imagined this guy was this big a twat. He's also a disingenuous liar. It's easier to understand the situation when you realize the guy is an unapologetic liar and there's nothing he or his proxys are saying that's believable. He sees himself as some kind of Machiavellian political operator, what his Overton Window bullshit and the rest of that piss.

Sad. Wordforge has survived for 10 years, but it's not gonna survive this. Honestly, at this point I think that's his agenda. He wants to blow the place up and remake it into something he thinks can be more easily marketed. But he won't be honest about it, because he knows everyone will walk.

Huh, I guess Paladin really does have me on ignore. Guess that answers the question of whether mods can have people on ignore or not...

Don't kid yourself, it would only be the beginning.

There's no limitation for it in the software, no. That said, I have none of you on ignore.

That is not how I understood Paladin's plan (Paladin, can you clear this up?).

What you describe here is something I could easily accept. Having GR and RR threads in the same room to give both visibility makes sense, seeing the uneven attention each room gets now. In a way, I do exactly that every time I click on "New Posts", rather than visit a certain room -- and I hardly ever do the latter any more. Under that plan, it would then be reasonable to close down the Green Room completely: If you start a Green Rules thread and the room you put it in only decides whether it gets lots or little attention, why post in the Green Room? Just combine the rooms to one Yellow Room and mark Green and Red Rules accordingly. That's really just a change to the surface design of the site.

However, the way I understood Paladin's plan, he doesn't want these new on-topic threads to be like GR threads exactly. I took it that he wanted swearing, ad hominems and the like to be allowed; but also that it would be disallowed to venture off-topic. Which would be a new rule that currently neither applies to the Red nor the Green Room. That rule would come with all the problems in constant judgement calls that we've been explaining for the last 16 pages.

These seemingly fine distinctions that matter a lot to the actual debate now bring my attention to another aspect: If we retain any hope of attracting new blood, we want the rules to be intelligible without a crash course in WF history. Explaining Green vs Red works well: moderated vs. unmoderated. Done. But there is some hurdle in learning that the Red Room has some threads that will be policed in one way, whereas the GR threads will be policed in another, and so on.

Ancalagon has a problem of ego. He believes that he's smarter then all the rest of us. Seen it in his posts for years.

He knows what works in his opinion. We don't. Therefore no matter what argument you put forth he's going to simply brush it aside.

Notice how it's now an "experiment".

He's determined to get his way. He's just humoring us at this point.

Of course I didn't believe it.

They would never allow such a thing because they would have more then two threads on a topic at all times just like the examples I posted.

The goal of Wormboy is to establish the Red Room as a derp free zone.

It starts with an "experiment" between non-derp and derp laced topics and then regardless of the actual result the "experiment" shows that we posters want derp-free in all our threads.

Welcome to the new Wordforge. Don't spit on the floor. Don't you dare kick that damn cat.

I think it would effectively create a room within a room, and cut down on the number of debate participants. The derp free threads would likely be pushed off the front page by thread bump trolls, and the complaint would then be that the derp free threads weren't being given a chance. An argument would be made to protect them, either by pinning or by warning thread bumps. A single room with multiple behavioral rules is a recipe for disaster. If these threads are viable and attractive, they will bring people to the Green Room.

I know I don't check the Green Room very often. Hell, I forget it's there half the time. To me, the Red Room is definitely Wordforge, and it seems that's how everyone else feels about it, too. You can go over to TBBS, and mention Wordforge, and their impressions will always be what goes on in the Red Room. It's as if the other 90% of the board doesn't exist.

I use New Posts. The only time I ever go in any actual room is to post a thread, or look for a specific long running but low traffic thread (such as the baseball or beer threads).

This is pretty much how I've always used Wordforge.

Same here. Which makes the plan described by Async ambivalent, perhaps: on the one hand, having GR and RR threads all on one page clearly works -- on the other, we already get that whenever we want it by choosing "New Posts".

Ok, that makes sense. The idea should be to make the "New posts" page more present. Among other things, would it be possible to add an additional link to it, at the bottom of the page, so you don't have to go back to the top of the page to click it? It could be put with the other links down on the right side.

Exactly. That's the absurdity. If a thread in the RR veers to a different topic that the OP it will get culled out. Tangential conversations happen all the time, derp or no. It's part of a discussion board to have side conversations. Paladin and Anc's idea is the answer to a question no one had asked.

QFT.

And we've really stepped into BizarroForge when Nick the Ballsack Walzcak is defending the Red Room against intervention. He's had way too many posts in this thread to quote, but all of them have been -worthy.

El Chup was a closeted Muslim shit-stirrer who happened to be on the right side of an argument. He's like the conservative version of you, really.

Do us a favor and quit helping.

As for Dayton...well, he's gone. So now who's the next target of board derision and how long will it be before we get thread after thread hounding them?

*puts finger on nose* Not it!

Exactly, so don't try to change it.

While I don't agree that WF is turning into TNZ, I'm reminded of how many TBBS posters were warned and - under the Lisa administration - banned for "picking on Enterpriser" (at least that was the explanation she gave me during my one-week ban).

It took TBBS years and all sorts of unnecessary rule changes before they figured out that excising the source of the problem was the solution to the problem.

It's like déjà vu all over again.

However, when Enterpriser joined WF and tried his nonsense here, he was banned in no time. And a previous administration had no problem banning Starguard for far less egregious behavior.

Curious.

I'm not saying "ban Dayton." I'm saying: Recognize that he's the source of the problem, and instead of trying to "manage" everyone who "picks on" him, manage him. End of problem.

I look forward to the shelter threads on this abortion.

"Manage Dayton" huh?

And exactly how would you suggest that be done?

You've already said you don't want him banned. So how are you going to define the parameters of what he can and can't post?

I disagree with you and evenflow that Dayton is the problem. In fact I don't think there's a problem at all, despite Paladin and Anc's pathetic whining. Dayton is being used as a scapegoat and a Trojan horse for installing a bunch of new regs that will kill off the site.

Dayton trolls simply by refusing to go away, so if you're not gonna ban him (and he's done nothing to earn a ban), the whiny bitches here are gonna have to figure out how to live with him. That's what the "ignore" feature is for. As I said before, he's figured out how to manipulate his haters, he'll toss some chum into the water here and there and then sit back and watch the feeding frenzy with amusement. The solution to this non-existant problem is foe people to stop playing his game.

You know, when you have one current and two former TNZ moderators saying you've gone too far...

I disagree. Enterpriser was the core of the Enterpriser problems, but Dayton isn't at the core of the Dayton farce.

You all can keep repeating that, but it doesn't make it true. I have no desire to change the fundamental makeup of the Red Room, I do want to find a way to provide those who want some debate and discussion space to do so.

For the seventh time, I don't have a solution in mind. I'm trying to talk out and get ideas and suggestions. Paladin has made a suggestion that I think is worth discussing, others are suggesting changing the front page. Both sound like reasonable ideas worth at least looking into feasibility.

Do you have any suggestions, or is it more fun to make up conspiracy theories than to actually read and respond to what I post?

It is more fun.

So he doesn't have me on ignore. You are wrong everyone!

There aren't any. We're discussing it here in the open, with input from the entire community. Why would we need a special secret version of the same conversation?

Cuz that's how we roll on the 'Forge.