I've changed my mind on redlight cameras

I'm sick of almost getting ran over walking to and from school by people who think they don't have to stop if the light just turned red a second ago. Ticket the fuckers every single time and that will teach them. If you don't want a ticket, don't run the light. It's that simple.

I haven't changed my mind. I'm still opposed to them.

I hate to say it, but I did the red light shuffle this morning. I was trying to turn left left (on a green light) against a never-ending wall of oncoming cars. There is no green arrow at this intersection.
I was running late....
I didn't have time to go through the intersection, do a u-turn then make a right turn.

And more good news....there are four more subdivisions going up within a mile of my house, so turning left will be even more of a challenge.

What are you talking about? If you enter the intersection on green, it's legal to stop and make the left turn after the light turns yellow or red in order to clear the intersection after the opposing traffic stops.

It's entering the intersection on red that's a no no.

Sheesh. GA drivers. Can't turn left without an arrow, but they'll run a red light at the drop of a hat.

^No it isn't, unless the law is different in GA.

Yes it is.

Red light means "do not enter the intersection".

If you are already in the intersection (for example, to make a left), you are allowed to clear the intersection even if the light turns red.

At least, that's how it works in my state, yours may be different.

You're still alive, pussy.

So.....if I see a wall of cars coming (and know I'll never get a break in traffic) I hang my ass out in the intersection and turn when the light turns red? I will research that.....I was under the assumption left turns must yield to oncoming cars. Off to do research!

You always yield to oncoming traffic when making a left turn.

That doesn't prevent you from entering an intersection while you have the right of way and stopping because you are yielding, the same as if there were no traffic light.

When it's safe to turn left, you turn. This may be after the light has turned yellow or red in the direction you were originally travelling.

I can't find any GA code that prohibits this. It isn't specifically spelled out, but this Texas driver has a good review of their code.

Keep in mind that left turn arrows are relatively new. They didn't exist before the 70's and they don't exist on all intersections. A lot of places (mostly older northern cities) don't have them still.

That said, you have to be awfully careful in GA (Atlanta) because of the number of people running red lights. Don't bet they're going to stop just because the light changed.

Ok, a little research indicates that, in Georgia at least, you wouldn't get ticketed for running a red light, but you could get ticketed for obstructing the intersection(§ 40-6-203). Likewise if you enter the intersection (going straight) while the light is green, but cannot clear the intersection before the light turns red because traffic is backed up in front of you, you couldn't be ticketed for running the light, but you could be ticked for obstructing the intersection.

I used to hate in when 2-4 cars would sneak into the intersection to make a left turn. You'd have to wait all the longer if you were stopped on the other street.

But then I moved to a place where most intersections don't have the green left turn arrow, and the only way to turn left is to sneak out in the intersection and wait for red. On these little two-lane roads, when only a couple cars turning left can pass through an intersection per light change, traffic really backs up during rush hour.

For the most part I simply avoid those intersections (and, consequently, the businesses around them). Or do my grocery shopping at 5 in the morning.

What the hell else are youa gonna do, sit in the middle of the intersection during the red light, blocking it, and wait for the light?

Oh wait, I've actually seen people do that.

This is the same as the texas code. I think the link I refererenced spells it out pretty well.

Thanks for finding this.

Oh and it's one of my pet peeves when people block intersections too. But waiting to make a left turn isn't the same.

Around here it's the TNJ buses running a yellow to make a right turn, then finding a car in the perpendicular left-turn lane in the way, making the bus come to a dead stop, which blocks the car from making the left, and we AAAALLLL sit there staring at each other while the light changes again until somebody manages to clear the intersection. The stupid fucking bus drivers trying to make their schedule actually cause more delays doing that.

Why?

I think some "Elwood" expert knowledge would come in handy here.

Cameras don't equal oppression Diacanu

Yes they do.

You realize that when they install the cameras, they probably change the timing on yellow lights in order for them to catch more red light runners, potentially putting you in danger?

Ha! Safety never even factors into the equation. The coparazia cameras are in place solely to generate revenue.

If safety was the primary concern elevated pedestrian walkways would be commonplace.

In DC, red light cameras actually led to more deaths on the road.

Why?

Because the asshole bureaucrats saw that they could increase their revenue from the lights by lowering the time the light stayed at yellow.

So before too long the light would just barely blink yellow and then turn red immediately, because they kept reducing it hoping to get more ticket revenue.

There was a major investigation, but it took a year, and several people died because of this.

So I'm pretty much uniformly against them.

^ Demiurge, unless they have some seriously different legislation, then I really doubt they could do that. Amber light and the 'intergreen' delay between both sets of green lights is not some nominal figure that 'bureaucrats' can just mess about with because they feel like it. There is always a minimum intergreen time for every set of traffic signals and a recomended time limit. These figures are not just arbitrarily plucked out of someones ass, there is proper engineering calculations behind them which take into account junction geometry, average speed and traffic flow on each of the arms. Maybe in your area this has all been circumvented in which case you are right, but it just reads as some disgruntled commuter jumping to conclusions.


Old fella, as long as the green light is on, you can enter the intersection and then clear it when the red light comes on stopping the opposing flow. This is one of the things that would be taken into account when optimising signal timings- the proportion of 'left turners' using the junction, which would then lead to a bigger intergreen. (stopping the next flow of vehicles for an extra few seconds to allow the left turners to clear out.)

Trust me, I know about this sort of thing.

That's simply transferring blame to engineering miscalculations.

In California you cannot enter an intersection on a green light unless you can reasonably expect to exit the intersection.

Wouldn't a green left turn arrow be the better choice?

Gotta lot of traffic violations too?

From 1998 when the traffic lights were installed to 2005, fatal and injury crashes in the locations where the traffic lights existed rose 81%. Overall crashes more than doubled, rising 107%.
Edit: here's the link
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/06/687.asp

During that time, the city fined its residents half a million times bringing in $32 million dollars.

I listened to a discussion of the timing regulation on the local NPR station that has a 4 hour show just on the District every week. They clearly stated that an investigation had shown that the district had decreased it's timing mechanism for yellow lights in order to increase revenue.

It's possible they were incorrect, or I suppose it's possible I'm misremembering, but regardless it appears that the traffic lights don't make any positive impact on the number of accidents in the DC area.

But they sure do bring in a lot of money.

Here's some more articles about traffic cameras increasing the number of accidents in intersections:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/home/intersection-collisions-increase/

However, it posits that people are more likely to abruptly brake on a yellow if they think they might get a ticket due to inaccuracies in the photo mechanism itself.

Washington DC saw a 107% increase in collisions in 6 years.
Portland Oregon saw a 140% increase in collisions.
Fort Collins, Colorado showed a 83% increase.
Oceanside, CA showed an 800% increase.
Philadelphia, PA showed between 10-21% increase.

Ah, here's a quote:

Of course, DC denies they've ever done this.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97286,00.html

In New Jersey, you have to clear the intersection before the light turns red, therefore you shouldn't enter the intersection unless you're sure you can clear it. Having said that, it's common to block the intersection while waiting to make a left turn, and to complete the turn after the light turns red and opposing traffic has stopped.

It's also common in NJ to floor it to make a left turn immediately after the light turns green, cutting off the opposing traffic which technically has the right-of-way.

But my father got a ticket for doing the latter in Florida.

Same thing in AL, you just gotta look out for cops before you do it.

Not one.