Leftforge Doesn't Understand the Second Amendment...

Could be. These guys, however, were among those who volunteered to protect military recruiters:

Because that's so much more useful than enlisting.

No, the militia's would. Meaning state armories would posses similar type of armaments like tanks, helicopters, equipment etc. Should the need arise where the Governor calls up the militia, then the militia would have access to those type of armaments, not individuals. In other words there's a distinction between individual's right to bear arms and the use of militia's.

The Constitution doesn't need the clause because it was left it to legislation, which was passed in 1792.

Militia Act of 1792

[quote="Federal FarmerNo, trying to have a meaningful conversation with you that doesn't involve stupid memes, mockery and insults has me winded. It's like you and chardman are the same person.[/quote]

Yanno, even Tamar told you we're not the same person, but if you choose to be ignorant, no one of any political persuasion can help you. That said:

If only you would apply that very logic to all interpretations of the Constitution.

Yanno, even Tamar told you we're not the same person, but if you choose to be ignorant, no one of any political persuasion can help you. That said:

[/quote]
You are completely useless.

I don't know, when the militia system is re-established?

On that "well regulated" thing - one interpretation I've seen, based on a meaning of the term known to be in use in the 18th century, is "well equipped."
Oh, get your minds out of the gutters - well equipped with proper arms and other necessary equipment.

Sez the guy who just Daytoned his tags.

How often do you drill?

Yes, this would be the correct interpretation as Liet so uncharacteristically pointed out. Guns, tents, food, etc.

How often do I drill for what?

Your "militia," obviously.

The Founding Fathers spelled out exactly what they meant in the Militia Act of 1792

I'll put some extra paragraph breaks in it.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved.

That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.

That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

II. And be it further enacted, That the Vice-President of the United States, the Officers, judicial and executives, of the government of the United States; the members of both houses of Congress, and their respective officers; all custom house officers, with the clerks; all post officers, and stage-drivers who are employed in the care and conveyance of the mail of the post office of the United States; all Ferrymen employed at any ferry on the post road; all inspectors of exports; all pilots, all mariners actually employed in the sea service of any citizen or merchant within the United States; and all persons who now are or may be hereafter exempted by the laws of the respective states, shall be and are hereby exempted from militia duty, notwithstanding their being above the age of eighteen and under the age of forty-five years.

III. And be it further enacted, That within one year after the passing of the Act, the militia of the respective states shall be arranged into divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, and companies, as the legislature of each state shall direct; and each division, brigade, and regiment, shall be numbered at the formation thereof; and a record made of such numbers of the Adjutant-General's office in the state; and when in the field, or in serviced in the state, such division, brigade, and regiment shall, respectively, take rank according to their numbers, reckoning the first and lowest number highest in rank.

That if the same be convenient, each brigade shall consist of four regiments; each regiment or two battalions; each battalion of five companies; each company of sixty-four privates.

That the said militia shall be officered by the respective states, as follows: To each division one Major-General, with two Aids-de-camp, with the rank of major; to each brigade, one brigadier-major, with the rank of a major; to each company, one captain, one lieutenant, one ensign, four serjeants, four corporals, one drummer, and one fifer and bugler. That there shall be a regimental staff, to consist of one adjutant, and one quartermaster, to rank as lieutenants; one paymaster; one surgeon, and one surgeon's mate; one serjeant-major; one drum- major, and one fife-major.

IV. And be it further enacted, That out of the militia enrolled as is herein directed, there shall be formed for each battalion, as least one company of grenadiers, light infantry or riflemen; and that each division there shall be, at least, one company of artillery, and one troop of horse: There shall be to each company of artillery, one captain, two lieutenants, four serjeants, four corporals, six gunners, six bombardiers, one drummer, and one fifer.

The officers to be armed with a sword or hanger, a fusee, bayonet and belt, with a cartridge box to contain twelve cartridges; and each private of matoss shall furnish themselves with good horses of at least fourteen hands and an half high, and to be armed with a sword and pair of pistols, the holsters of which to be covered with bearskin caps.

Each dragoon to furnish himself with a serviceable horse, at least fourteen hands and an half high, a good saddle, bridle, mail-pillion and valise, holster, and a best plate and crupper, a pair of boots and spurs; a pair of pistols, a sabre, and a cartouchbox to contain twelve cartridges for pistols.

That each company of artillery and troop of house shall be formed of volunteers from the brigade, at the discretion of the Commander in Chief of the State, not exceeding one company of each to a regiment, nor more in number than one eleventh part of the infantry, and shall be uniformly clothed in raiments, to be furnished at their expense, the colour and fashion to be determined by the Brigadier commanding the brigade to which they belong.​

It goes on very much longer.

The point is that they organized all the people (males of fighting age) into military units that were to equip themselves with up-to-date battlefield weapons. It was as if every member of Congress had just served in the military in a war against the British and knew what they were talking about!

"A well regulated militia" and "the people" at the very least leave plenty of wriggle-room, where the amendment could be interpreted as referring to a collective right; thus facilitating some common-sense reforms to the crazy anachronistic gun laws without a repeal.

The Supreme Court in Heller found very little wiggle room. The right is an individual one, and includes the right to be armed for service in a militia. They further found that the guns that were popular because they were being chosen by the people (such as AR-15's and Glocks) are the most protected weapons under the 2nd Amendment.

The militia act of 1792 not only allows you to be armed, it requires you to be armed - with a military grade weapon.

tacticalresponse.com

OK a "well regulated militia" would seem to be National Guard, wouldn't it?

I'm not buying the "well equipped" definition.

Word Origin and History for regulate
v.
early 15c., "adjust by rule, control," from Late Latin regulatus, pastparticiple of regulare "to control by rule, direct," from Latin regula "rule"(see regular ). Meaning "to govern by restriction" is from 1620s. Related:Regulated ; regulating.

No, the National Guard wasn't created until 1903. It's members are taken from the militia into federal service. With its creation the states no longer had to fund the militias unless they were called out. My state's last major militia call up was in WW-II when the Guard was deployed overseas and thus unavailable.

It should be noted that the National Guard is no long really just a state level military anymore.

After the Vietnam War, General Creighton Abrams (yeah, the one the M-1 tank is named after) angry about people getting out of Vietnam War service by joining the National Guard declared

"We're not going to war again unless we take the guard with us".

To this end, Abrams (and other officers in different branches) deliberately restructured the U.S. military so that it would be impossible to conduct large scale operations such as a war without massive activation of reserve and guard units.

IIRC, the Texas State Guard was activated when the U.S. was preparing to invade Iraq in 2003. I read an account of a Guard member who wrote about he and his fellow state militia men standing guard and directing military traffic at a major base in Texas.

It's not "my" militia, idiot. We don't have militias anymore as I pointed out up thread.

I'm not sure why that would be necessary as no Texas Army National Guard units were deployed to Iraq until early 2004.

In my country we have the National Guard.

If your country no longer has militias, they no longer serve as an alibi.

Why aren't you guys all up in arms about the lack of a well regulated militia (assuming the Guard doesn't qualify)?

It almost seems you're using the 2nd as an excuse to play with guns with no regard to your duties as a citizen.

I'm in an irregular militia...of one.

Two if you count the dog.

Besides...people who do join militias are largely seen as paranoid racist nutballs...because they largely are paranoid racist nutballs.

Yes we do, and you're in it. One day the governor may call you up and you'll say "But I didn't join the military!" They'll reply "No, you didn't. You were born into it."

We just quit having regular meetings, but we're still around. An example from my state:

KRS 37.170 Kentucky State Defense Force -- Organization -- Reorganization.

(1) The Governor is hereby authorized to enlist, organize, maintain, equip, discipline and pay when called into active field service a volunteer state defense force other than the National Guard, which shall constitute the active militia and shall be known as the Kentucky State Defense Force, which shall consist of able-bodied citizens who are residents of the State of Kentucky between the ages of eighteen (18) and sixty-four (64) who are not active members of a reserve component of the Armed Forces of the United States.

(2) Whenever the President of the United States shall call any part of the National Guard of this state into active federal service, the Governor is hereby authorized to organize the Kentucky State Defense Force under such regulations as may be promulgated by the Governor or adjutant general.

(3) The Governor shall have the power to alter, divide, annex, disband or reorganize any organization of the Kentucky State Defense Force whenever in his judgment the efficiency of the state forces will thereby be increased, and he shall have power to change the organization so as to conform to the regulations now or hereafter prescribed by the laws of the United States for the organization of the National Guard or militia.

History: Amended 1984 Ky. Acts ch. 414, sec. 47, effective July 13, 1984.

37.180 Governor is commander in chief -- Adjutant general is executive officer.

The Governor shall be commander in chief of the Kentucky active militia, and the adjutant general shall be the executive officer and shall be responsible to the Governor for the proper functioning of the Kentucky active militia, and he is hereby authorized and empowered to take necessary action to perfect and maintain an efficient organization for the purposes herein set out. He shall have charge of all matters of administration and organization, which shall be in all respects, insofar as necessary and applicable, the same as that of the National Guard.

37.200 Officers and personnel -- Administration -- Equipment -- Housing -- Enlistment and discharge of men.

(1) The Governor of Kentucky is hereby authorized to appoint and commission the necessary officers for the Kentucky active militia. The adjutant general of the state with the approval of the Governor shall prescribe rules and regulations governing the enlistment, organization, administration, pay, equipment, discipline and discharge of the personnel of the Kentucky active militia; obtain by requisition or purchase from the Secretary of Defense such necessary arms and equipment as may be secured from the Department of Defense, or procure from some other source the necessary arms and equipment to maintain and equip the Kentucky active militia; and provide the necessary space for the housing of property and for the purpose of drills and instruction. (2) All officers shall be appointed and commissioned by the Governor. All men shall be enlisted by the unit commanders and may be discharged upon order of the Governor for the same reasons as men are discharged from the National Guard, when such discharge is requested in writing by the unit commanders.

37.210 Oaths of officers and men.

All officers and enlisted men of the Kentucky active militia shall take an oath similar to that required to be taken by commissioned officers and enlisted men of the National Guard. Said oath when duly subscribed to shall be filed with and preserved by the adjutant general of Kentucky. The oath shall be administered to all officers by any person authorized to administer an oath. The commanding officers of the units are authorized and empowered to administer the oath to all enlisted men in their units.

37.220 Drill -- Parades -- Ceremonies -- Privileges.

Companies and other units of the Kentucky active militia are hereby authorized to drill, to parade and to have all other ceremonies, privileges and rights in regard to such matters, within the state, as is authorized by law for the National Guard.

37.230 Visits of inspection.

Commanding and staff officers of organizations and units are hereby authorized to make such visits of instruction and inspection, when authorized by the adjutant general to do so, as in his discretion may be necessary. When making said visits they may be compensated as provided in KRS 36.140 and 38.205.

37.240 Active service -- How and when ordered into -- Direction -- Powers.

The Governor is hereby authorized to call and to assign any part of the Kentucky active militia to active service for the purpose of resisting invasion, suppressing rebellions, insurrections, riots, or threats thereof; to suppress any active, unlawful, or threatened violence to persons or property in this state; to authorize the arrest of all persons engaged in aiding or abetting therein; to investigate any acts of treason, sabotage, or attempted sabotage and to cause the arrest of such persons engaged therein for aiding and abetting; to protect life and property in the event of any emergency or disaster. The Governor may by his order prescribe the duty to be performed by the troops thus called into active field service. The Governor may direct the commanding officer of such military forces thus ordered into service to report to any of the following named civil officers of the judicial circuit, county, city, or town: Circuit Judge, sheriff, county judge/executive, or mayor; and such civil officers may direct the specific object to be accomplished by such military force, but the tactical direction and disposition of the troops and the particular means to be employed to accomplish the object shall be left solely to the officers of the Kentucky active militia. Troops shall not be relieved from active field service except by order of the Governor.

37.250 Right to carry arms.

Officers and enlisted men of the Kentucky active militia when ordered on active duty as prescribed herein shall have the right to carry arms. All officers and enlisted men shall have the right to carry arms at any drill or ceremony.

37.270 Pay for active field service -- Travel expense.

Officers and enlisted men, when employed in active state service as defined in subsection (4) of KRS 38.010, beginning with the day they assemble at their armories or other designated place until the day they return thereto and have been properly relieved, inclusive, fractional parts of a day counting as a full day, shall receive pay at the rates provided for in KRS 38.205 and in addition thereto actual and necessary cost of transportation, when transportation is not furnished in kind.

37.285 Workers' compensation for members on active state service.

The Department of Military Affairs shall accept the provisions of KRS Chapter 342 for the benefit of members of the Kentucky active militia while such members are on active state service.

37.310 Legal representation in civil or criminal action arising out of act done in course of duty.

If any member of the active militia, when on duty or assembled therefor under competent authority or lawful order, shall do any act in the discharge of his duty, the doing of which causes him to be proceeded against by civil court action, it shall be the duty of the Attorney General to represent the member of the active militia in any civil proceedings so begun. If, under the same conditions, a member of the active militia is proceeded against in a criminal action, the adjutant general may, with the approval of the Governor, appoint for said member of the active militia, legal counsel, who shall represent said member in any criminal proceedings so begun. The compensation paid the legal counsel shall be fixed by the adjutant general, with the written approval of the Governor, and upon proper certification shall be paid from the appropriation for the Department of Military Affairs as other claims against that department are paid. History: Created 1944 Ky. Acts ch.​

We get pay, travel expenses, workman's comp, and free legal representation. As to why the current militia law starts at 37.170 instead of 37.010, they repealed a ton of earlier regulations in 1942 that probably had to do with muzzle loading artillery and blue uniforms and whatnot.

@gturner claims to be in a militia.

Real militia - i.e., the National Guard - had some of the highest casualty rates in Iraq.

You guys running around in the woods playing hero are the perfect definition of the "summer soldier" and the "sunshine patriot."

That is nice and all, but the reality is not that the militia was there to defend against the fed or other country's armies. The militia was there to defend against slave uprisings. Yup, the white guys in town wanted an armed militia ready in case their slaves got uppity. That is why it says that a well armed militia is essential to maintain a free state, because they recognized the well armed militia was necessary to defend their authority. It is just a bit ironic that they were so ass backwards they did not recognize slavery was not freedom, but back then they were a bit fuzzy in the head just like you are today.

Now quit being a complete ignorant moron and just admit you need a gun because you have a very tiny dick and your daddy thought you were a wuss. We all know it and you are the only one left who cannot admit it.