Mayhem in Paris

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by shootER, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    @Dayton3

    Seriously aren't you aware that Russia is fighting ISIS alongside Assad right as we speak? The liberation of the Kuweires military airport wasn't a result of the Russian air force "bombing the Free Syrian Army", these are direct conflicts with the Islamic State of Syria and the Levant. And of course Russia is propping up the Syrian regime, it's stated that this has been their intention all along as a part of achieving a peace process.
  2. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Don't the Russians have some reserves they can mobilize?
  3. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Nor in Christianity, for that matter.
  4. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    @Ancalagon

    I would be fine with reliable sources for the statement that the deployable strength of the Russian Army is 70,000 men.
  5. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Well IIRC there was one of Israel's evil kings who was leading a seige and a woman in a tower threw down a large rock that mortally wounded him. He called on his armor carrier to kill him so no one could say he was killed by a woman.
  6. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Actually, for the U.S. Army when it had more than 500,000 troops only about 60-70,000 were actual "trigger pullers"
  7. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Very, very few Russian strikes have been against ISIS to date. Hardly any at all.
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  8. Quincunx

    Quincunx anti-anti Staff Member Administrator

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    The Russians are not in Syria for sentimental reasons. They have a naval base there they are not going to give up without a fight, no matter who is running the country.

    An ally that can't hang on to power isn't much use.
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  9. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    It might stem from some ancient regional cultural idea that if you get killed by a woman you weren't really a man.
  10. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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  11. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    While we were in Baghdad a couple was apparently in the wrong neighborhood. They were both killed, the fetus cut out of her and placed beside her, both their heads cut off and her head placed on his body and they killed a dog and put the dogs head on her.

    Until now I never knew the significance of putting the dogs head on... Learn something new everyday.
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  12. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    And you do? Really? Do you believe that you are more knowledgable than me about these issues? Why? I acknowledge the limitations to my knowledge but I do have a fundamental understanding of the situation which is rooted in thirty years of political teachings and analysis. I've actually been sitting down with lots of Middle-East rebels, representatives of the PKK... I have had several friends who used to be fighters in various guerillla groups in these areas including Iran, for example. I've attended conferences on these matters in France, in the Netherlands and in Germany as well as in my native country. Really annoying when your German is rusty, by the way.
    Yeah, only Syria is not Iraq. An international coalition would not have the mandate to remove the secular regime from power, it would have the mandate to remove the Islamist terror groups - which do not constitute the voice of a popular uprising even though said popular uprising exists, and which are not firmly rooted in the country like, say, the Taliban in Afghanistan - and then strengthen, selectively modify and use the existing legal framework and institutions of the country to create order and stability. This is exactly what was not done in Iraq, where you more or less saw the wholesale destruction of all control mechanisms. This plan for Syria is a working model and it has a legitimate shot at succeeding.

    Do a lot of Syrians hate Assad? Sure, they do. None of the warring factions really have the support of a majority of the people. That does not mean that it is impossible to make them live under one flag in relative peace. Hell, it might not even be needed; one could argue that the Kurds have done enough to merit an autonomous region - they do not wish to secede from Syria altogether, by the way.
  13. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    To be honest I can't point to a single source for that. I get my news and analysis from a variety of sources as well as personal experience. Don't remember exactly where that fact came from.

    What number do you have for Russia's professional force?
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  14. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Yeah, that's the problem. I can't find any reliable information whatsoever. :madcookie:

    Uh, best I can do is quote bloody Wikipedia. " Thirty percent of Russian Armed Forces' personnel were contract servicemen at the end of 2005.[34] For the foreseeable future, the Armed Forces will be a mixed contract/conscript force.[34] The Russian Armed Forces need to maintain a mobilization reserve to have manning resources capable of reinforcing the permanent readiness forces if the permanent readiness forces cannot deter or suppress an armed conflict on their own.[35] Professional soldiers now outnumber their conscript counterparts in the Russian Army, for the first time in Russian history, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told Russian media 28.04.2015.[36]"

    Apparently, they just signed up their 300,000th professional soldier.
  15. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    They already all agreed Assad must step down but Russia demanded Assad get 18 months. The real danger is Assad thinking he could weather b the storm than not step down after the 18 months are up.
  16. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    I remember the Russian troops being completely worthless in Kosovo and the Russian Army being so poor they routinely had to have their guys bused over to Camp Bondsteel because the Russians didn't have the money to even feed their soldiers. You should have seen those guys leaving the American chow hall trying to stuff 6-8 MRES, a six pack of coke, and god knows what in their pockets because they didn't know when they would get another meal.

    Meanwhile, all of us Americans hated MREs and we would mostly eat at local restaurants because Psyops could get away with that sort of stuff. I also remember the Bulgarian economy seemed to be based on making and exporting illegal copies of movies and music. They were sold at every store at every roadside and would say "genuine authorized copy made in Bulgaria" while the cover art was just a cheap photocopy. :lol:

    Those Russian guys never missed steak and crab legs Sundays. The entire Russian base (which was a sad collection of mobile homes) would empty out and the entire Russian force would be waiting in line at the American chow hall 45 minutes before it even opened. It was the highlight of their week. ;)
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
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  17. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    There's a huge difference between the state of the Russian army today and the force that invaded Georgia, even if it's true that lots of it hasn't been modernized. All Western analysts agree with this, as far as I know.
  18. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    You were in Psyops in Kosovo? IIRC my roommate in college was a reservist who served in Psyops and was sent to Kosovo. He was also in both Gulf Wars.

    After repeatedly being activated he decided just to make the army his full time occupation and became an Army chaplain.
  19. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    I don't know if I should really hit "like" on this. That's sick beyond words.
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  20. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    First off. Wikipedia.

    Secondly, assume for a second there were 300k professional soldiers. That doesn't mean that there aren't only 70k deployable forces.

    Who do you think is in charge of all those conscripts that can't deploy? Who do you think runs the bases? The training centers (where a new class goes through every 6 months)? Provides the backbone?

    Have you ever studied Russian military organization? It's fucking nuts (from a western standard). There are 2 halves of a platoon. Half the platoon will be enlisted conscripts. They will only be trigger pullers. And not very good at that. Other half is officers and an NCO. Commander, officer. Sub commander, officer. Commo guy, officer. Medic, officer. Anything not a basic grunt, officer. (It should be noted that to become an officer you only need to graduate HS and then go to 2 years military college, this includes specialty training). There will then be one, ONE! NCO who's job it is to keep the grunts in line. And an NCO is just an enlisted soldier that decided not to get out after his term and got a couple months extra training.

    Everyone except the grunts will be contract (professional) soldiers. However the unit itself is not deployable or considered professional due to the conscripts.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  21. armalyte

    armalyte Unsafe for everyone.

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    Listen, I'm not claiming it to be one way or the other. I was pointing out that I was quoting "bloody Wikipedia" (sic). All I said was that this was all the information I could find.
  22. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    @dayton, which year was he in Kosovo?
  23. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Not certain. That was years after he got married and we lost touch. I later heard from one of his relatives about him signing up with the Army full time and becoming a chaplain.
  24. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Classy Fellow

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    From a sassy gay friend on Facebook. Too soon?

    [​IMG]
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  25. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    Anyone who can come up with a hard number of the deployable Russian force strength needs to call the Kremlin because they don't have anyone who can do that. Everything is based on opinions about what the numbers mean, and we all know how everybody makes chains of assumptions about production, supply lines, ammunition consumption, and all the other friction of deployment and operations. Accounting and numbers get filtered through all the things that aren't written down, like the reasons production is either nearly idling or at maximum capacity, why transport can be doubled if there was a real requirement, and what the troops in the field really need. All of those are opinions. Informed opinions, but still opinions, and clouded by emotions, goals, personalities, and desire. That is the nature of war.

    *cites 838 military maxims*
  26. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Let's be clear. The Soviets were never a military superpower in anything but their fantasies and sales pitches of the US's military industrial complex.

    The Soviet Union fought a 10 year insurgency ON IT'S OWN BORDER. It resulted in the loss of 15k troops, the bankrupting of their economy and the dissolution of their nation.

    The US fought TWO 10 year insurgencies ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE PLANET. They resulted in the loss of 6.5k troops, an estimated decrease of ~2% GDP, and the Democratic landslide victories of '06 and '08.
  27. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    What I am talking about is human nature. You have all these big notions in your head and it is mucking up how you see the problem. I am saying in a number of ways you cannot get there from here without making them part of us. This is an internal muslim problem. They are not going to listen to our answers. You do not understand what you are fighting, and that is going to hinder your goals.

    Do you explain your presence to them like that? You are a foreigner. I will explain it to you. Here in america we have the country christian redneck and he doesn't like hippies and city black people. He does not like gays muslims or people from india. He fights with all of them within the United States. However, if some stupid country were to put their troops in america you would find that redneck prefers his countrymen to your foreign invaders.

    I am telling you that sometimes you have to let the boys fight it out. It is going to be bloody and horrible, but they are going to fight. They have to get it out of them.
    You are not getting the fact that all of the factions really do not matter. I know you are going to freak out and take that the totally wrong way. However I am talking about taking it back to the basic human condition. If we want to manipulate the outcome we have to understand much more in depth than you are capable of doing. This is because your head is all up in it. You are too close to the problem and the vectors are blinding you. I am a troll, and I am good at making people do what I want. ...............



    OK, you win. I trust what you are saying is true, and you have much more information and I way overinflated my point. My point is that human beings do not like foreign people with guns telling them what to do. They may do it and seem happy, but underneath that there will always be anger at the occupying forces.

    Oh, and don't go telling anyone I lost an argument. Their heads might explode.
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  28. Jan Jansen

    Jan Jansen Ukraine Feline Defense Force

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    This is disgusting und you are a horrible person!

    (I've just sent this picture to all my friends. Thx! Humor ist, wenn man trotzdem lacht.)
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  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Did you know that for the first 120 years of our existence Blackstone's Commentaries were considered the end all be all of a legal library?
  30. gturner

    gturner Banned

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    As an Appalachian hillbilly who runs over hippies for sport, I would welcome the pagan Viking invaders because they're more American than about half of Americans are. Sure, we call them nasty Scandis and know that they'd rather being wearing bloody furs and leather than the polite fashions, but that's why we like them. Underneath it all they're brutal homicidal savages who have just mastered kitchen appliances so that people don't run away in terror. We look upon them and think "Hey, you're also a repressed pagan homicidal maniac with impeccable taste. What say you we kill all these worthless motherfuckers?"