Military coup in Bolivia

That's wrong.

I know you're both warped from your reaction/response to the China-Bolivia thread I quoted. Many different people with varied ideas or worldviews might react in many possible different ways. You two reacted with uniquely warped responses.

For Bailey it was apparently (paraphrasing) 'nothing to see here, business as usual.' Possibly he's become desensitized by proximity to China's bad behavior to react any differently. Never mind that he regards China's (extortionate, possibly neo-colonialist) activity as "globalization." Whew, not going down that hole.

Your response is too warped on its face to need further elaboration.

The thread I quoted just added some (imo) rather interesting info, I made no editorial comment about the thread and what it meant beyond being interesting add'l facts - what you guys both took away from it I think stems from your baggage. : (


[edit to add: John is right to disagree, your warped replies were not really "uniquely" warped, my bad.]

So you approve of current events in Bolivia? You think this is progress?

Show me where I've defended China lately dude.

The point is that there was no argument presented in what you posted. There were a list of facts that could apply to many countries, then a conclusion drawn that didn't actually attempt to thread those things together.

To be honest I was a little unsure what point was being made and played the odds based on the poster, his history and the content of the link.

Seems that gambit paid off.

Except the government which took the guns was overthrown, by a right wing party who objected to it and became the dictatorship.

Yes. Well, in olden times that's what we called "news." Info without instructions on what to think.

Interesting. I came across something similar.

You’re missing the point - the people have been left with basically nothing to defend themselves apart from handguns as far as i can tell. The government is using weapons that civilians cannot own

I find that unfortunate

I'm not at all sure their lot would be improved by having those guns though, whereas the idea disarming was part of an oppressive scheme to make this possible makes no sense whatsoever.

I see, so you were offering no opinion?

Here's a surprise.

Ah, so you're a "taking it lying down" kind of guy. Good to know

Yeah, again that not the point that was being made

How do you believe the situation would be playing out differently if the public were armed? Would they really be in a position to make a positive change? I find that doubtful to be honest. I don't know what the solution here is, but the problem has clearly been neither socialism nor gun laws.

The point I made matters because your case leads into a pro gun argument based on defence against tyranny, but that equation doesn't work here. It's the tyrants who would have kept the population armed and the public who supported their coup were unarmed, much like the much quoted fallacy that Hitler "disarmed Germany" when in fact he was significantly pro gun by comparison to his predecessors.

This is what an inspirational person looks like.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/karlazabludovsky/bolivia-mayor-patricia-arce

The coup in Bolivia, the massive unrest in India, the imperialist, dangerous individuals who have taken the reins of power in so-called "first world" nations like the U.S., and Britain. It's enough to make you disheartened at where humanity is heading. So it's always good to see positivity.

Link.

Oh look.

Turns out the OAS was talking shit and the claims of fraud were baseless. Down the memory hole with that, then.

Oh I see, so the socialist dictator who didn't dictate, who fought for and improved the living conditions of his people, who worked towards racial equality, who improved the economy, also didn't rig the elections?

But the US backed government who ousted him, cracked down violently on protests and put an openly racist far right leader in his place? They're actually illegitimate?

Any thoughts @T.R ? @Paladin? @Zombie? @Lanzman? @Marso? @GhostEcho?

Trump said this was a great victory for democracy, for freedom. Sure doesn't look that way from where I'm standing.

Remember, kiddies, here's how it works:

You can vote our way into communism.
You'll have to shoot your way out of it.

This public service message was brought to you by the Lessons of History- Bill S. Preston, esq, and Ted Theodore Logan. Be excellent to each other!

How's that hypoxia working for you?

All of that is false, as history attests. Neither has communism ever been installed by a democratic vote, nor were most successful revolutions against Communist governments violent.

No violence in the eastern bloc? I seem to remember a number of states that got pretty violent.

Would you say the people whose lives were vastly improved by Morales and were happy to not only freely vote for him but change the constitution to give him a third term have in some sense benefited from replacing democracy with a military coup and dictatorship, even though we now know he was legitimately the winner of the election?

Please actually explain?

Rumania did. Perhaps one or two others that I don't recall at the moment? But the vast majority didn't. According to @Marso, it should be the rule rather than a rare exception.

So, quick update.

Having conveniently (given how Morales's party STILL legitimately control the legislature) suspended all routine political activity for the duration of the pandemic the US supported far right Bolivian government are suddenly talking about an election.

Still during said pandemic.

Not sure what this is supposed to achieve except to possibly limit voter turnout but given public opinion is strongly against them and in favour of Morales perhaps they are looking for an election whose validity can be later called into question? Seems strange considering how they were hailed a victory for democracy and freedom and other such things, but the mass protests suggest that they aren't so popular at all.

Maybe "democracy" and "will of the people" don't mean the same thing after all and a military coup installing a dictatorial government isn't such a good thing merely because it's getting rid of the terrible socialist person. Any thoughts @GhostEcho, @Marso, @T.R, @Tuttle and friends?

^^^Morales' MAS party is way ahead in the polling for a new election. You can bet your bottom dollar they're searching for ways to stay in power despite that.

So who's the legitimate government representing the will of the people again?

Sorry, was under the impression this whole debacle was a victory for democracy?

Shouldn't laugh.....

Called it. This is truly Orwellian.

Although there is some suspicious delay in announcing results, it appears that the Bolivian people have roundly rejected those who overthrew their government and have returned MAS to power.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-54591963