Muslim Community Patrol in NYC. Good idea? Bad idea?

I'm all for concerned citizens taking an interest in keeping their neighborhoods safer.

The uniforms and marked car are a little borderline. They're wrapping themselves in the trappings of an authority that they don't actually possess. Still, as long as it's not abused, it needn't be a problem.

The second this turns into anything remotely close to coercion for religious purposes, it should be outlawed. I'll give the people involved the benefit of the doubt, but Islam has a very recent history of religious vigilantism.

Reminds me of something from the mid-90s: a reporter and I were at the Alamodome to interview the general manager about something and, thanks to a lazy assignment desk, we were running behind. Exacerbating our lateness was the uniformed, but unarmed security guard at the entrance who was demanding that we wait until someone came to the entrance to escort us to the GM's office.

After about two minutes of tapping our feet and fuming at the delay, the reporter and I just took off and headed for the guy's office (we'd been there several times before and required no "escort" to take us there).

The security guard lost his shit and started yelling at us, insisting that we wait. I called back over my shoulder, "What are you going to do? Shoot me with your RADIO? "

No one is forcing anyone to be Muslim. You are a liar and a racist.

I do hope this does not happen. However, if one of these neighborhood watch people gets a concealed carry so he can bring his own gun with him, and then he shoots a black kid with skittles we will have people like @Zombie telling us how the Muslim patrol makes the neighborhood safer and is doing a very important job.

All these guys need to do is harass and kill some black kids and the right will hoist them up like Donald trump. They are just worried at the moment that the Muslim patrol might help a black person out and that just pisses them off.

Yeah, this is a place where -- whether it's fair or not, and whether it has anything to do with the group's actual actions or not -- context matters.

"Muslim Community Patrol" weirds me out a little, due to the fact that there are many, many places in the world where a body with that name would not be harmless. "Christian Community Patrol" would weird me out too. It might not conjure up images of women being beaten for having their heads uncovered, but I still wouldn't want them anywhere near me.

Show me a "Jewish Community Patrol," on the other hand, and I'll be immediately inclined to trust them.

Double standard? Yes. But again, context.

I would get the fuck out of the way of old Jewish guys doing to citizens patrol here in Floriduh. They are likely to accidentally run you overI am not really sure why they let the old retired people ride around in those patrol cars, but it is Floriduh.

On the upside since they are only driving 5 mph if you do get hit you don't go very far.

And if you hit them, you can always drive to a safe place in Georgia.

The US isn't Europe and has a very different approach to how we treat communities. People are less isolated here and become a part of the community. To deny that is to deny basic facts about the country to justify your own bigotry.

I honestly take it as you living in a fairly insular area surrounded by nothing but white people. You don't really see other groups and base all your ideas on them on extreme examples. You're naive and ignorant of how the world really works and it shows. The fact that for the most part Muslim communities in the US are not a threat to anyone. They actually face more abuse than anything, which is why this group exists. The most common form of domestic terrorism is the US is caused by white men from far right extremist groups and white supremists. But we don't attack all white men or even right wing groups because the majority are not part of those groups. The same goes for Muslims, the dangerous ones aren't in the US for the most part and ones who are are radicalized through the Internet because they end up feeling isolated by people like yourself, they feel the need to lash out at those who they view as oppressing them and people die.

Everyone wants some sort of community and most find it in their area and that requires getting along with others. But you reject them and deny them the basics that everyone else is getting they're going to find it elsewhere and sometimes they're going to go to the groups that tell them that their anger is justified and turn a small spark into a fire that will burn others. By treating the whole like an extreme example you're just driving them towards that. If someone called you a terrorist constantly, denied you your rights and treated you as an outsider eventually you'd decide to fight back.

Note: @Dinner is lying about European events, just as he habitually lies about events in the US. Don't believe fake news just because they are about stuff you don't have direct knowledge of. Consider the source.

Yeah he seems like he only considers things that completely confirm his ignorant view of the world. He's like a teenager who thinks he's an expert at everything.

I used to think you were just poorly informed, now, I am beginning to you are just lying for the cause. In order to avoid your usual duck and dodge game please detail what you wrongly imagine to be incorrect in that post then I will post links showing that you are yet again completely wrong.

Yes, everyone is lying to make you look dumb and bigoted. You aren’t doing that to yourself and are self obsessed that you can’t wrap your head around why everyone treats you like a delusional, racist idiot.

To be honest whilst I can't speak for all of Europe I think this is a slight misrepresentation of how communities operate. The US is more sparsely populated with focused population centres but much of Europe has cultures which are much more based around communal interdependence, albeit without the overt expressions of national identity which are common in the states.

Positive action groups which represent specific groups can be a double edged sword, they can be socially positive and conscientious and they can represent divisions between people. Sometimes the two aren't mutually exclusive.

In extreme cases they can become linked to terrorism and organised crime (don't forget the mafia has its' roots in movements to protect the rights of Sicilian workers for instance - in many ways being a community police force in origins, then shifted into a quasi trade union upon migration to Italy but in both cases heavily involved in protectionism), in more benign cases they become charities or NGOs, (see the Red Cross, St John Ambulance - which have strong religious roots) depending on a lot of factors, but crucially inclusivity tends to be key to the latter. Where a movement is specific to a particular group there's always the danger that they could shift from positive representation (Stonewall) to militancy (Black Panthers) under certain conditions.

That isn't to say such groups have no value or are inherently negative, on the contrary I applaud situations where people come together to benefit their communities. It does, however, mean that there's always the chance that what starts out as a way to represent peoples' rights and interests can become something else entirely.

Arizona lets oldsters in retirement communities drive golf carts around - those don't cause too much damage.

Sharia patrols popping up in European cities and forcing their beliefs on the inhabitants.

But don't start posting links. We have been here before too many times. You will post links to obvious fake news, as well as to actual news reports that blatantly contradict your claims but that you failed to read before linking. I am not here to engage in that farce with you; I was just warning @BizarroEnt, who seemed to believe you.

Well, there's always that. I seem to be sat here remarkably sharia less.

I'm whiter than white and I think that this is great.

I'm sure there are plenty of orthodox Jews that you wouldn't want patrolling your neighborhood, spitting and throwing rocks at your "whorish" daughters.

https://jezebel.com/orthodox-israelis-spit-on-whorish-8-year-old-girl-for-g-5871293



But either way, community patrols like this, generally speaking, feel like a solution in search of a problem, and I'm certain they attract the exact sort of volunteers you wouldn't want wandering around your community feeling empowered to bother people. Just ask Trayvon Martin.

The problem is when they hit a bump the get flustered and go to push on the breaks and hit the gas pedal. This is why the local post offices have installed posts to stop cars from driving into the lobby around here.

Aren't most teenagers experts on everything but dumb as a stump?

Those are bigots from Isreal. I have to say there is a huge difference between a jew and the right wing nutbars of a religious state. We have the same sorts of right wing assholes here in America only they wear MAGA hats and carry tiki torched for Jesus telling the jews they won't replace them. It is all the right wing fascist religious nutbars of a country.

I have been around many orthodox jews here in America and they are not spitting on kids or harming anyone. Yes, they have their ways and beliefs but like everyone they use public spaces and spitting on people is something that will get the police involved so most people don't do it.

"Aren't most teenagers experts on everything but dumb as a stump?" - TErerun

yes, that's why employers should hire them at 17 if possible - because at that age they already know everything!

Several of the ones in the UK definitely claimed to just be neighborhood watch type citizen pateols at the beginning... And then they quickly degenerated into anti gay, anti semitic, and anti anyone not a Salafist.

THAT is their track record. On the upside, I am pleased you are self aware enough to avoid asking for video proof. I guess deep down you did know you were wrong even if your pride wouldn't let you admit it. That is progress of a sort.

Oh, here we go. Mr. Fat Thumbs Can't Bother Spellchecking has bought into all those fake videos from a few years ago.

What. A. Surprise.