No they do not always practice strong punishment! I just told you my step-brother has committed violent gun crimes and still only does a few years at a time then gets released repeat the cycle! Remember in the US unless you commit a Federal Offense (mostly uniform and harsh sentencing) the state in which you committed the crime decides your sentence. And receiving a long sentence and fulfilling it are not the same thing. We have the largest prison population because IT IS AN INDUSTRY. It may have started out with good intentions, but JAIL/PAROLE/PROBATION/PRISON is an industry! The US has more lawyers than much of the rest of the world combined. More money is to be made all along the chain by constantly releasing criminals. Here in Georgia they have thousands of people on parole for a MISDEMEANOR! A misdemeanor is the lowest level of crime you can be booked for. But you may be drained financially for a long time, because parole costs money. And if you get hemmed up too much you have to yes..you guessed it....hire a lawyer again! Maybe you've seen too many US crime shows or movies or The Andy Griffith Show. Long, long gone are the days when you are tossed into jail for a few days or pay a fine and that's the end of it. When you are arrested you are booked and in the system forever. BTW this system has several different data bases from several different agencies having nothing to do with each other. So you can be arrested in Ohio for something you did five years ago in Montana that you are already cleared of. Will it be straightened out? Yes of course.....after you are arrested for an open warrant and jailed and have to....you guessed it...hire a lawyer to help you straighten it out. You have just generated more revenue for several people. Our system is a whole different level of FUBAR than you can ever imagine until you are in it and see it for what it really is. So please tell me how limiting my desire for self defense (which I don't depend on a gun for, I like guns for recreation) will save the US from further gun violence.
I'm all for a drastic reform of the prison system. But that won't help keep the guns from the Lanzas and such of the world because their records are clean.
Oldfella, I find it hard to follow your logic. Let set out my argument to make it clear: 1) The US has a lot of gun crime; 2) The US practises strong punishment in comparison to other countries as evidenced by having the world's largest prison population; 3) 2) doesn't seem to reduce 1) through either deterrent or some other means; 4) Therefore, your contention that even stronger punishment would reduce 1 appears unlikely. I actually agree with some of what you say about the prison system, but it's anecdotal and doesn't affect the above.
I mean if we're talking anecdotes, let's look at what happened here. The guy, who is probably mentally unwell in some way, decided to go and attack some people; all he was able to get hold of, however, was a knife and as a result he only injured 3 people, 1 seriously. Had he been in a place where it's easy to get a gun, he would almost certainly have killed several people.
Dude....what part of the world's largest prison population NOT EQUALING strong punishments don't you understand? If we had stronger punishments MAYBE PEOPLE WOULD BE AFRAID OF GOING TO PRISON. Can you follow that logic? If you knew 100 percent that you would be on a fucking chain gang breaking rocks FOR LIFE if you committed a gun crime that type of punishment would not be a deterrent? Not even a little bit? Give me a fucking break. As for being anecdotal, is it anecdotal if MILLIONS of US citizens from all walks of life can verify the exact (or close to it) type of experiences with the Justice Circus? When it comes to this topic: you...don't...have....a...clue. I hate to use the old saying "you had to be there" but fella, "you had to be there."
It was a fake spoof ad someone did on the internet several years back. I remember when it happened and VW had a shit about their products and logo being used without authorization.
Short of widespread use of the death penalty (which will never happen) there is no way to make stronger punishments in the U.S.
Bullshit. How many people do you know in the penal system? It's not fun, but punishments can be much, much worse - but they won't be because there would be lawsuits up the wazoo.
The part where it's clearly nonsense. And no, I can't follow your logic because it's faulty. I would say that a reasonable measure in determining strong punishment is comparing it to other countries. The US clearly has stronger punishments than other countries because it locks up many more people; whether you personally think it's strong or not is irrelevant. And yet the US has far more gun crime than countries with weaker punishments for crimes. This means that the problem is not punishment. I would suggest that gun violence is down to these three things: 1) The huge amount of guns in the US; 2) The war on drugs; 3) Certain cultural factors that result in many people who shouldn't be near anything more deadly than a butter knife having easy access to firearms.
No, if you're only prepared for what IS happening, you'll be unprepared for what might happen. It's why we have seat belts and fire extinguishers.
Err..fires have happened and people have died through want of a seat belt. On the other hand, what oldfella suggested hasn't happened.
There's been some research to suggest that the likelihood of being criminally punished serves as a stronger deterrent than the severity of the punishment. In other words, it might not matter how long one thinks they might go to prison, what matters is how likely they perceive getting caught and punished at all. After all, I could be aware that committing a certain crime has a 20 year prison sentence, but if I'm pretty sure I won't get caught the length of the possible sentence would be less relevant. Perfect example is movie/music piracy. It carries some hefty fines for each instance of piracy, but such piracy is widespread probably because of the unlikelihood of being caught and tried.
Other factors are involved as well. AFAIK no one gets passed over for a job because they copied movies or music. Or have people not want their kids around them.
You are exactly right on points number 2 & 3! It would be hypocrisy to wage a "war on drugs" when we have millions of people hooked on legal prescription drugs! Much like guns, everyone has (one way or the other) the right to put crazy shit into their bodies. It's what we do in the US. Booze, coke, weed, pain killers, anti-depressants, it's all the same in my book. Stop...giving...a..shit..about what people do behind closed doors. Now your point #3. Yes, certain cultural factors do seem to be a HUGE factor in total numbers when it comes to gun violence! Here in the US certain demographic groups (15 percent of the population) account for 50 percent of the gun crime. I'm not a math wizard, but that group seems to have a problem with violent crime, and since guns are all over the US, it stands to reason the total numbers of gun crime are from that group. This is the US - we are a melting pot like no other nation. Thus we have a situation most of the world cannot fully understand, nor do I expect them to. Our Constitutional Rights apply to every US citizen, as well they should. So as a proud US citizen I accept the risk that there are demographic groups that are statistically more likely to kill me than I am to kill them. But in their wisdom (god they must have seen into the future) our Founding Fathers made the provision that ALL CITIZENS have the right to bear arms. For many years not everyone had that right. But today every sane law abiding citizen does. So how does that relate to yours truly or some little old lady living in a dangerous neighborhood? It means we have the legal right to own and use a firearm to defend ourselves against those who might harm us. Will our having a gun work every time? Not even close! Will we at least have a chance to stop the threat? Yes we will! Our Constitution gives us that chance - without involving our local police. Break that shit down to the bottom line - you want (or have the ability) to kill me, I can legally return the favor. Nothing personal, it's part and parcel of living here.
This is the point at which one ought to realise that @oldfella1962 isn't interested in logic or evidence, but only in parrotting banalities, anecdotal evidence and obvious falsehood.
Okay, explain logically how to get 300 million guns out of circulation, knowing that nobody will willingly give them up.
Wrong again - if you have a criminal record you will rarely get the chance to explain why you have that record. Because you will never even get a job interview to begin with. You will be weeded out by a computer (that screens for criminal records) long before that time. Man-to-man job interviews rarely occur until the "cream of the crop" reach human resources. A record is a record is a record these days. Granted, your line of work may be different. But in my world there are no second chances or opportunities to explain circumstances.
Falsehood? 300 million guns are here in the US. For every person not owning a gun, another person legally owns five. Luckily the person that owns five will never commit a violent crime. But I'm sure you knew that. Anecdotal? Do you actually know many people in the US? Do you know their family history or personal background? Please enlighten me - AKA tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, having been in this country for 53 years (minus 7 years overseas).
Those are just the guns we know of. Most people have a couple in the attic that they've forgotten about.
You require all of them to be registered and you make it so that the punishment for ever been caught with an unregistered gun is death and forfeiture of all assets. Then you offer a $10,000 reward for anyone who tells about unregistered guns. They will trip over each other to see who gets the reward money first.
As I've said before, if they do that I'm mailing you one of my unregistered guns and collecting $10,000. Say hi to the guys working the gas chamber for me!
That's okay. I have enough to make a bunch of mistakes and still get one to you. Remember: The left's solution to gun violence is to execute about 100 million Americans in gas chambers, but non-violently of course!
