No global warming my ass!

Sorry, I missed the part where you showed me solid evidence that Volcanoes have a significant and lasting effect on changes in the ozone layer!

I don't think that 99% of it is caused by x and I don't see what economic hurt you are speaking of when I say 'invest in green energy technology.' This will help the economy... Since when is conservation bad?

Well congratulations on avoiding the issue, but if you so demand; Yes, solar activity influences temperature, but from the statistics and science I've seen, not enough to explain global climate changes in the last few decades. Most scientists agree.

Even if only 90% is caused by x (which amounts to a colossal human conceit, IMO), it doesn't change things much.

Interestingly, I wholly support getting off fossil fuels, but it's nothing to do with global warming, but simply because they are finite resources, and they empower corrupt regimes.

I wish I knew where you were getting your numbers from....

One of the most ardent skeptics to global warming... that guy from U of Colorado estimates that humans have contributed about 33% to atmospheric carbon dioxide levels since levels have risen 33% since the start of the industrial revolution not counting or the natural carbon cycle... you're saying 10%. Are you pulling that from your head or from the other end?

You avoided his original comment so technically you avoided first.

I provided evidence, even with shiny tables showing the relationship. But all you can do is rattle off platitudes about consensus.

I think I'm just beginning to realise how Galileo felt...

How much has the population of the Earth increased since the Industrial Revolution? Far, far, far more than 33%

Well, not in so many words... Post #71.

Async can vouch for me... this has been my stance for a looooooong time.

What, are you illiterate? It was neither hard to follow nor incorrect.

Dan, I can't find a direct link for you--the PBS site is Flash-driven crap--but look into "'Secrets of the Dead'+Catastrophe". Or you could probably plug in "Krakatoa+PBS" or "Krakatoa+Dark Ages".

[edit: Actually, this is a decent discussion of the program: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/01/010102061812.htm ]

In conclusion, anyone who comes in here and, with a straight face, argues that the weather they've experienced in their town over the past 5-10 years is evidence of Global Warming(tm) is likely wearing copper bracelets, with magnets in their shoes for the health benefits. And they have NO place criticizing Creationists for their beliefs, let ALONE people who believe in Intelligent Design.

Ozone layer and climate.

If the reduction of CFCs by man has curbed the size of the hole in the ozone layer, can our own contributions be considered significant and lasting?

Dare I even mention the year without a summer?

Meanwhile, solar activity increases...

So you're saying there's a perfect correlation?

Lot of this popping up on Wiki, the fount of all amateur knowledge

Wrong.

Does it mean human history up to the point of Krakatoa?

We only started releasing large quantities of CFC's after we discovered them, believe it or not. So what's his point.

I can and do vouch for him. He and I are in agreement on this point, though not for the exact same reasons in the exact same proportions. Though I share all Alpha's reasons on the issue, the number one issue for me is neither environmental nor economic, but geo-political: I believe that America's number one foreign policy priority in the coming years should be to eliminate its dependency on foreign and especially Middle Eastern oil, in order to bring the Arab and other Mid-East countries back into a normal pattern of social development.

They have been catapulted into a position of "power" in the world, due to the incredible demand for their oil in the 20th century, that has allowed them to side-step the normal process of having to develop a stable socio-cultural strucure before having that kind of influence. It would be good for them and for the rest of the world for them to have to get back to the basics (set up a society that works, not one based on repression of thinking and the enslavement of a majority of the population) before they can start talking about playing an important role on the world's stage.

The primary cause of terrorism is not the West's (admittedly unwise) policies in the Mid-East during the 20th century, the poverty of the region, or the Muslim religion. It is the feeling of "entitlement" that has come over so many of the people of the Mid-East because of the wealth and importance they have, without having earned it. They didn't build up a stable and rich society by their own means, the way Europe and the Far East did. They just sort of stumbled into it, because the rich European societies were willing to pay them incredible amounts of money for their oil.

Now, they are acting like so many spoiled rich kids, considering themselves superior to others without ever having actually done anything to demonstrate that superiority. They need to be put back on the normal track of social evolution, to work out an equitable society or fall by the wayside of history.

Nevertheless, even though that is my primary reason, I consider economic reasons (excessive dependence on a non-renewable resource is never a good idea) and environmental policy (I think that reducing the amount of CO2 we're putting out has to be an ecologically wise idea) to be factors worth taking into consideration, too.

That would be a little silly, don't you think? Use your brain, man!

My, aren't YOU the Master of the Obvious.

The answer to your question is: "Obvious".

^OK, then what he stated was wrong, pure and simple.

Fox is just trying to discredit my argument on a technicality. Technically CFC's only refer to manmade chloroflourocrbons. What he wants to dismiss that volcanoes do emit tons of other compounds (like sulfer dioxide), natural compounds that can destroy ozone, and cause all sorts of other environmental effects.


Hell even certain fungi have been discovered to release ozone destroying methyl bromide, but I'm sure that it's all our fault.

Haven't read this, but tell me how close my guess is for how it's gone so far.

Global warming disbelievers- *Plugged ears* Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.....

Global warming believers- *Same* Lalalalalalalalalalalalalallalalalalalalala.....

GWDB- (louder) LALALAALALALAALALALALALLAALA...!!!!!!!

GWB- (Even louder) LAALALALALALALALALALALALALA...!!!!

(Back and forth, ad nauseum)

Yes, and meanwhile the status quo lives!

Science Disagrees!

Personally I hope it stays nice and toasty until at least Jan 12th.

Tailor made climates for sale!

I see the "Captain Planet Science" of Fox Mulder and Nick has been thorougly discredited.

Very entertaining, as it were.

Hey now, don't be dissin' on Captain Planet!

Not true. That's dirty, dirty slander!

It was all one-way fellatio. African dude never once reciprocated.

~Captain Plaaanet
~He's a hero
~Gonna take polution
~down to zerrooo!

The master of vague science strikes again.

Of course volcanoes emit "tons" of "other compounds"...millions of tonnes. This is the point though - millions of tons of sulphur affects the global climate by an irrelevantly small amount

The day I see man influence seasons worldwide is the day I become an envirofundie.