Norway torturing prison inmates?

Then put the power in the hands of the victims families in situations such as mass murder. Take a vote - if the majority of family members favor "put him down" then the family puts him down in an orderly humane fashion.

Likewise, as soon as the means exists to restore the life of an inmate who has been erroneously executed for a crime it's later discovered he didn't actually commit....then, and only then, will I be willing to consider capital punishments to be anything other than an abomination of justice.

I think death penalties should only be given when there is no uncertainty that the guy committed that crime. Stuff like the guy that kidnapped Jaycie Lee Dugard or ones with multiple eyewitnesses and a fuck ton of evidence that erases any doubt that are just far too heinous to ignore.

And if they're gonna do it like my suggestion, there will be little need for a 20 plus year wait for them to fry, cuz there'd be little need for appeals.

Why not?

With modern safeguards like DNA testing the likelihood of executing an innocent man is so minute as to be not worthy of discussion.

At any rate, the perfect is the enemy of the possible. No reason to abandon something just because of a once in a decade error or less.

No, I'm not. Go back and read the thread again.

No, and as the responses in this thread demonstrate, that's not what will happen to him.

Mistakes happen and lifetime imprisonment is a valid alternative.

He could escape you know.

Or who knows, be released if an ultra right wing govt. takes over in Norway.

A lot can happen in 20 years.

there is no true thing as "lifetime imprisonment".

Remember Michael Dukakis and his infamous furlow program for inmates serving life in prison without parole?

The head of the dept. of Corrections I think it was met with families of victims about the program and said that

"Everyone assumes that a person serving life in prison will get out of prison long before they die for one reason or the other."

He also said IIRC that "An inmate serving life without parole would be too dangerous to deal with in prison unless they had something to look forward to (like the furlow program".

and I can say through personal knowledge of my own state that it is far, far from unheard of for inmates (including murderers) to be allowed out of prison "unofficially".

Bullshit! DNA evidence is available in only a fraction of capital cases.

Killing an innocent for a crime they didn't commit is ample reason in my book, and in the books of just about everyone in the legal system, all of whom are taught "Better that ten guilty men go free than that one innocent suffer.” - William Blackstone.

And your "once in a decade" estimation of how frequently innocent men have been condemned to die proves you to be a clueless nitwit of epic proportions.

I've seen analysis of all these supposedly "innocent men sentenced to die". Virtually all of them involved problems with procedure or questions about evidence.

NOT that they didn't actually commit the crime.

I agree that if there's any doubt that someone is innocent, free them at once, period. None of this keep them on death row then let them go at age 60 having wasted their lives. No money can make up for those lost years. But in a case where there is overwhelming evidence (as in the Norway case) why not put them down?

Again... bullshit.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php

I don't even advocate executing all murderers. One time "acts of passion". (one victim) then I'm not upset with 25 to life, as long as they serve those 25 years at least.

But when you have premeditated murder with multiple victims with other felony crimes added in there as well. With multiple eyewitness testimony supported by overwhelming physical evidence............then I'm not clear on how a person can argue AGAINST the death penalty.

The innocence project is one of the sources I'm referring to Chardman.

Do you understand what DNA proves? Because presence of DNA does not prove the person is a murderer. DNA is circumstantial evidence.

It can prove the presence of the accused at the crime scene. Which is considered a serious issue IIRC.

So presence = guilty of murder? I mean, you can't even tell when the person was present. Just present. Vague as to time too. But good enough? This is what happens in a post-CSI society.

Umm... He's complaining about how he doesn't have enough games and that his easy chair could be more comfortable. How has anything in this thread demonstrated that he isn't going to spend the next 21 years in prison playing video games and enjoying other luxuries?

He'll spend more than 21 years in prison and only has access to games he doesn't want to play.

But I have no objection to him being treated humanely, and that includes access to what would be considered luxuries by those who would have him in a chain gang.

Oh such torture!!!! Allowing him to only play games he doesn't want to play!

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

Somewhat less ridiculous than those who prefer a system with demonstrably worse results.

A once in a decade error resulting in someone being executed for a crime they didn't commit seems reason enough to me.

Because it's "savage." Of course keeping someone locked up for life is IMO mental torture. But since civilized Europe does this, they must be superior to us, because they have been around longer than America, thus they know what's best.

When it comes to dealing with mass murderers, what do you consider a 'good' result and how do others compare with Norway?

I consider less violent crime to be a good result. Norways is very low, and that of countries with more punitive justice systems is higher. There's almost a direct correlation.

Dude - what part of Norway is less of a melting pot don't you understand? What part of Norway's history doesn't create the complex class/racial differences that fuel much crime in America don't you understand? Is any region of Norway that much different (thus different crime rates) than any other region? Could you have a situation there comparing the ghettos of Chicago versus Whitenerd
Idaho? This isn't even close to apples and oranges, it's apples and washcloths. Some parts of America have an almost zero crime rate - let's compare these places to Norway and it won't be that different.

Explain to me how giving a guy who executed 77 children video games and an easy chair lowers the violent crime rate. I'd love to see that 'almost direct correlation'.