Obama Administration thinks if you dad sucks, they can kill you

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Azure, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    Not surprising that nobody mentioned this.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/alwaki-son-yemen-16-drone-2012-10#ixzz2AGGbrCv0

    I guess if your dad sucks, the government has the right to kill you. Doesn't matter if you're an American citizen.

    Also, always nice to see the outcry on WF from all the people who for years accused Bush of committing war crimes and getting involved in illegal wars.

    :techman:
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  2. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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    Antiwar went out of vogue the moment actormike ejaculated on his own face when Obama personally headshot the Somali pirates while aboard the U.S.S. Fuck Yeah.
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  3. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    I'm not sure they are really justifying the killing on that basis. More likely, the son was an Al Qaeda operative, which is to say an enemy combatant. I'm okay with killing enemy combatants, so long as there is some verifiably objective criteria applied to the decision, something external to the Whitehouse with review and that issues warrants. This is where things are a bit murky, because we don't really know much about the procedural question.
  4. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    I look forward to the media doing their job and properly criticizing the Obama Administration for their huge lack of threat assessment before they choose to send a drone in and kill someone.

    Yes we don't actually know what procedure they use, but we do know that when collateral damage occurs, they just shrug and say it is part of 'war.'

    Well shit.

    Oh, and it does sound like Gibbs is justifying it exactly for that reason. He doesn't make any final decisions though, so it is more than likely a case of him sticking his foot into his mouth.
  5. actormike

    actormike Okay, Connery...

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    ...and the right all became peaceniks when the guy in the Oval Office suddenly had a D next to his name.
  6. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    There you go again, deflecting from the issue at hand.
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  7. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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    So you and the right are two sides of the same coin.

    Thanks for confirming.
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  8. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    That's pretty much what I meant. Honestly, he seems drunk if the statement is faithfully reported. But he isn't in the room when the decision is made, he doesn't know any more than we do. Maybe he was trying to say the apple doesn't fall far from the branch, hut he fumbled it if so.
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  9. Starchaser

    Starchaser Fallen Angel

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    Begun...the drone wars have. :yoda:
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  10. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    My guess this thread is off the front page by tomorrow, and will be ignored just like the media and all the Obama supporters are burying their heads in the sand about this.

    Great job you fucking hypocrites. :techman:
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  11. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    He was old enough to legally sign up for the military (with parental consent) and actively involved with Al Qaeda. He was a fair military military target especially since he was in an Al Qaeda run training camp. F'em.
  12. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Couldn't care less. The kid was not targeted, but he was travelling with a Al Qaeda senior operative Ibrahim al-Banna at the time. They had just left an Al Qaeda meeting, which a drone had missed them by a minute, but it didn't miss them in their car. Hang out with AQ terrorists, expect to face an unpleasant end.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/10/2011101564019722483.html
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  13. Muad Dib

    Muad Dib Probably a Dual Deceased Member

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    Maybe we can keep the thread around. :bump:
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  14. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    We've learned from the Tasvir thread that self pinning can work.
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  15. evenflow

    evenflow Lofty Administrator

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    Nobel approved, extrajudicial assassinations of US citizens with flying death robots. Anyone else remember all the hand wringing over Jose Padilla?

    Enjoy the cozy little bed you've made for yourselves, you fucking hypocrites.
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  16. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    When did people decide that enemy combatants weren't legitimate targets in war? And fuck your hypocrite BS. I've always supported the targeted approach to hitting Al Qaeda over the bomb the shit out of everything nearby approach. I've always supported going after Al Qaeda wherever they happen to be. Perhaps you are confusing opposition to the stupidity of invading Iraq for some larger war is never an option stance, and if so, you haven't been paying attention.

    Disagree with fighting Al Qaeda if you'd like -- a principled stand is always a good thing. But drop the intellectual dishonesty of pretending people en masse changed their views on 1/20/09.
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  17. Midnight Funeral

    Midnight Funeral Cúchulainn

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    And the clinton admin assassinated a mother holding her baby in her arms. And burned children galore to death in Texas.

    The more dems change, the more they stay the same.
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  18. evenflow

    evenflow Lofty Administrator

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    If you're not with us you're against us, eh? Wow. :lol:

    I mentioned Padilla not Iraq, but nice deflection. Ya know, the detainment and torture of a US Citizen without due process? The type of thing that had leftists and hippies everywhere protesting in the streets. Now flash forward and few years and we're rocket bombing US Citizens ( and their kids! ) all without a peep from the "humanitarians". We were told for eight years to care, to pay attention, look what's happening, well okay, ...but now we learn that we were always at war with Eastasia. :bergman:

    I'm glad phantomofthenet's eyes gave out, so that he doesn't have to see this. What am I saying, he's probably jerking off to the news that his president is valiantly leading the charge against 'Merica's enemies.

    In a few years I'm gonna watch FOX and see President Paul Ryan drone striking abortion clinics, and I'm gonna sit back and have a lulz.
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  19. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    On the plus side, before his assassination al-Alwaki was the first Imam to give prayers to the Muslim Congressional Staffers in 2002 in cooperation with CAIR. Yes, this was at the US Capitol.

    This was after his multiple arrests for soliciting prostitution and his forgery to get access to foreign born scholarships but before a link had been made between him and the 911 hijackers.

    The ultimate irony of course is that the legal precedent was set by the imminent danger interpretation created by the Webster-Ashburton treaty, when those damn treacherous Canadians attacked American citizens in American waters.

    Of course, those citizens had been involved in an attack to overthrow the Canadian government and were organizing for further attacks.

    Which in this case is pretty relevant.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  20. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    And Truman nuked the Japanese, not once, but twice. :bergman:
  21. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    It definitely troubles me that the Obama administration's position is that it should be allowed to target anyone it suspects of being a terrorist with no checks and balances.

    It also is unfortunate that more on the left and the right aren't speaking out about this.

    It is likely previous presidents claimed and exercised this power, but were not as brazen about it. It is extremely likely that a President McCain would have claimed and exercised this power, and that a President Romney would also.
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  22. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    The kid is a red herring, and clearly simply political grist. He's not even the first US citizen taken out by a drone strike - that would be Kamal Derwish (aka Ahmed Hijazi), killed in Yemen a decade before.

    The question remains is imminent harm a reasonable stance to invoke executive privilege and sanction the killing of an American citizen overseas. That's about Daddy, not the kid, and its hard to argue this guy wasn't directly related to ongoing attacks against Americans.

    As he was beyond the reach of American law enforcement, I'd say, grudgingly, that it might - though I still think they went the wrong way about it, and should have tried him in absentia. Though there's clearly faults with that system as well.

    Regardless, that's an entirely different deal than what you do with an American citizen once they are held. Justice went the long way around with Padilla but ultimately served IMO.

    Concerns about the police state in the US are separate from concerns of wanted terrorists overseas. There isn't the expectation that law enforcement or even the military can arrest people in areas not controlled by the US - often not controlled by any group other than a local clan or warlord. That's where Al-Alwaki bought it.

    If the US executed a US citizen wanted in the US without due process there'd be a much larger public uproar, and we all know it. The same would happen in any allied country where we could expect a warrant to be served.
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  23. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Huh? Where are you getting this bit from? Just making up what my view is on this question? Nothing I've said here in anyway implies that concept. :jayzus:
    I don't see this in the same light as Padilla. Padilla was captive, it's not a relevant comparison, and yes, I opposed torturing him, along with anybody else we hold in captivity. You accused my of hypocrisy, I'm not sure why, so I made an assumption you meant originally being against fighting Al Qaeda. Thank you for clarifying. I believe I've answered your Padilla question, and again, before you start making charges, why don't you try to find out what actually informs my thinking.
    And clearly you never paid attention to what he said on this matter either. He was one of the first people at Wordforge to talk about fighting Al Qaeda with special forces, drones, and targeted assassination. I usually expect this sort of broad brush from somebody like Midnight Funeral, but not from you.
    Because you'll be in favor of such tactics then? Why, for spite? :jayzus:
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  24. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    By the way Flow, sorry if you are the one I jumped on about this, but I'm quite tired of being told by people that I've changed my mind about something due to who occupies the Whitehouse. I haven't, and I'm done listening to such statements.
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  25. evenflow

    evenflow Lofty Administrator

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    Why don't we consult POTN, he seems pretty clear about it here.

    As for changing positions regarding who is in the White House, yeah, it's happened sorry. But it's not so much the changing of positions outright that bothers me, as much as it is the seeming lack of any criticism. Heck, I'd settle for some acknoledgement. The other day Liet made this post...

    A good point I thought, sure to get some discussion going. What followed was an in depth argument over whether Obama was bowing to everyone or not. Fucking crickets.

    These points are made at times, that in actuality, Obama is far more an authoritarian than Dubya ever dreamed of being. The conclusion that some of us are left with is that it seems not to bother Obama supporters, that they're actively voting for drone strikes against American citizens, the NDAA, the War on Wiretapping, the War on Medical Marijuana, etc. Is this a reasonable conclusion?
  26. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    No, it's not a reasonable conclusion. Liet has mentioned it as you point out, and Raoul and John much more so. I don't feel that I have a strong enough grasp of the issue to be honest, because I haven't been debating it with all of you for the past four years. And as you've noted, the press has been pretty silent.

    It bothers me, I'm not sure that it's beyond what Bush did, so much as better covered (often by people who were silent on it before). I'm bothered by lots of other settled civil liberties infringements, too. But in the big picture, things like NDAA, TSA, etc., they are happening regardless of who has the whitehouse. I'm going to focus on the areas that might change, because right now, I'm not ready for the idea that revolution is the only appropriate response to our federal government.

    Creeping authoritarianism is a problem, but I don't think we are at the tipping point just yet. :clyde:

    [edit]

    Regarding the post by POTN, it is about Padilla, not the things I mentioned. :bailey:

    [/Edit]

    [edit2]

    And where have I changed positions? Again you level the charge, but I don't think I have, so :nyer:

    [/Edit]
  27. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    And saying Romney or McCain would have done the same thing is a fucking moot point considering Romney and McCain haven't been President the past 4 years.

    It also extends way beyond just the WoT. Under the Obama Administration the police force in the US has become much more like the military.

    It is mind-boggling that people don't see that.
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  28. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    So continue to ignore, or what? Does everything have to come to a tipping point before something is done about it?

    People don't know about this because the media has their head so far up Obama's ass they can't see what is going on. That plus the Obama Administration has been incredibly secretive about everything they do.

    I mean if I were given a choice between Romney and Obama, I would vote for Obama. But I would still complain like hell over his inability to read the fucking US Constitution.

    Instead you have millions of diehard Obama supporters that act like he does nothing wrong.

    You, Raoul and John are clearly the minority.
  29. actormike

    actormike Okay, Connery...

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    In 2012, that would be considered "throwing our valuable Japanese allies under the bus."
  30. actormike

    actormike Okay, Connery...

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    A question to the Al-Qaeda cheerleading crew:

    Which is preferable?

    A. The death of American citizens in foreign countries who are actively working with terrorist organizations to carry out attacks against the US and her allies.

    B. The death of American citizens in the US or one of her allies who are killed as a result of terrorist attacks by the aforementioned American citizens from option A.

    Terrorists there or civilians here. Which should die?