So he fired him....but here are the facts. According to what Obama's people said 'last' year....they knew that Wright was a racist pig, not to mention Obama attending his sermons and hearing this crap. Despite that, he was still involved with Obama's campaign, and offered him spiritual and political advice. Only recently, after this thing got to the media, and Obama began doing damage control, did he fire him. After 20 years of putting up with him. Sorry, but I don't buy this crap. Imus made one comment, one, and Obama wanted him fired. Wright has a history of making numerous racist comments, and Obama stuck around with him for 20 years. There is a pretty clear double standard there.
Azure: Regarding the Phelps comment. I indeed did address with via the quotes from McCain's sought out endorsement. What I said about that applies to Phelps as well.
Jesus. Let me break it down for you into little, easy to swallow pieces. He made a speech. I criticized the speech for being what it is: Election year rhetoric, and a bit of backpedaling. You came in scolding me, telling me why this dungheap is above reproach, as though you've got some preternatural connection to the mind of Obama that assures you of his sincerity. Of course, unless you're the Amazing Kreskin, or happen to be fucking Miss Cleo on the side for free psychic advice, you don't know what's inside his head. This is a FACT. On the other hand, my assertion has the benefit of observable behavior. Obama attended this shitbag's church for 20 years. This is a FACT. We know that Wright's line of crap didn't just start since Obama has been running for office. This is a FACT. We know that this speech came AFTER the Wright flap had been revealed through the marvels of Al Gore's internet, not before. This is a FACT. It's easy to wax poetic and philosophical about the reprehensible actions of your associates (and to spin a homily about how those actions are symptomatic of bigger problems) after you've been hit with the egg and are trying to wipe it off of your face. This is a FACT It's a difficult thing, but one which displays character, when a leader (or someone who desperately wants to become one) identifies problematic events and associations in his life, and preemptively takes a stand. It shows commitment, courage, political savvy, and that he isn't afraid to go on the record, even if there's a cost. This is a FACT. Obama didn't do that. This is a FACT. So, summarily, your argument is, "Look at his words. This argument is incisive. It's all you need to know. It's what the man says which matters." My argument is, "Look at his actions. It doesn't matter what he says. It's all you need to know. It's how the man has acted, and reacted, to life events and associations which matters." So, if you want to go on listening to your little heart going pitter-patter for his eloquent, but belated avowal, you go right ahead. That doesn't change the fact that you're deliberately ignoring what's really telling about Barak Obama.
Except Phelps is a bigot, and shouldn't be seen in the same light as McCain's sought out endorsement. If you can't see that....there really is no more hope left. Might as well jump.
Can anyone dig up some more of Wrights sermons for me? I can only find links to the one, and even then it's just the few offensive snippets we keep seeing.
The difference is, just because the man sits in the pew, doesn't mean he agrees with the spew. Sadly, there is a sizeable faction of Christians who believe that being gay automatically damns a person to Hell. And, sadly, there is a significant sect of those types of folk who believe that they have to be very outspoken about it. Whether Phelps and his followers exist exclusively for bigotry, I don't know. Until shown otherwise, I'll assume they don't. If McCain was sitting in the pews every Sunday, I'd still judge him as smart enough to filter out all the bullshit.
What's even more pathetic is that Wright claims to be a man of God. I can't seem to recall the Bible, or for that matter telling anyone to be so offensive and divisive.
Wow. You're really blind to all this. Do you even know what Phelps and his followers do, how they promote their agenda? Because you're either blindly supporting Obama, or you're trying to wash it all away. Obama went to church to listen to this Wright lunatic for 20 years....he listened to his vile crap for 20 years. He considers him a close family friend and mentor. He asked him to marry him and his wife. He asked him to baptize his children. McCain has NEVER done anything like that. Can't you see the difference in that? So quit deflecting.
You really don't get the purpose of church, do you? People don't continue to attend services if the principles being taught shock, or even annoy, their sensibilities. No, there really aren't. Most "Christians" believe that being gay is a sin, but one for which a person can be forgiven. That's not even splitting hairs. It is the minority of "Christians" who believe the "going to Hell" bullshit. No, there isn't. It's a minority which just has the 'squeaky' wheel thing going on, nothing more. That doesn't mitigate the fact that what they're saying is abhorrent, but because a handful of idiots know how to work the system doesn't mean that there are "significant" numbers of them. They absolutely do. Even amongst 'fundamental' denominations, Phelps and his group are viewed as the lunatic fringe. All you have to do is read their charter to know that. And, again, their actions speak louder than words. He'd be an idiot to keep sitting there through this, both politically and personally (actually, anyone who would put up with this kind of bile from the pulpit would). I think McCain sucks just as much as Obama and Hillary, and if he planted his fat ass in a pew listening to some dickhead bloviating in the way that Wright or Hagee have, I'd expect him to be nailed up for it. But McCain hasn't. He's asked for an endorsement. I think it says just as much about his character that he's asked for the recommendation of a guy like this, but it's certainly a far cry from attending his services for a third of his life.
And of course Sexbot is wrong. If you do continue to sit in the pew, then you definitely condone the spew.
.... When they sit there and don't bat an eye about a girl deserving death for living in a certain town or that a man deserved to be killed for being gay and campaigned outside his goddamn FUNERAL, how is that *not* bigotry?
I think being in the presence of a man while he spews racist crap, and not condemning him on it, pretty obviously shows that you support it. Your presence gives power to his words. Makes them mean something. Unless Obama doesn't see it as racism, which really wouldn't surprise me.
I don't think he actually knows what Phelps and his ilk does. Hence the misunderstanding. Or he's just stupid.
My gut says to give you a big, "Amen, brotha". My head, on the other hand, wants to make a qualification: Obama's inaction doesn't necessarily mean that he is supporting it personally, but the nature of his vocation certainly put him on the hook, as a leader, for not stepping up and being the "healer" and "man of peace" which he wants everyone to believe he is. It was crap very similar to this which drove me away from religion. Of course, it wasn't nearly as vitriolic or as blatantly hateful as what Wright has spewed from the stump. This is what makes me question how any reasonable person, particularly one who claims to be a "man of conscience" could sit through even one of these invectives and have a good feeling about returning for more. Ever.
*steps up and sings a little ditty* "This is where the party ends I can't stand here listening to you And your racist friend I know politics bore you But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you And your racist friend It was the loveliest party that I've ever attended If anything was broken I'm sure it could be mended My head can't tolerate this bobbing and pretending Listen to some bullet-head and the madness that he's saying This is where the party ends I'll just sit here wondering how you Can stand by your racist friend I know politics bore you But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you You and your racist friend This is where the party ends I can't stand here listening to you And your racist friend I know politics bore you But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you And your racist friend Out from the kitchen to the bedroom to the hallway Your friend apologizes, he could see it my way He let the contents of the bottle do the thinking Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding This is where the party ends I can't stand here listening to you And your racist friend I know politics bore you But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you And your racist friend" *curtsies and exits stage left*
It would appear that at least at this moment this situation has torpedoed his campaign. I was listening to him in a interview with I think Anderson Cooper, he is in full victim mode. He is also doing something that he claimed he wouldn't be doing in this campaign. That of turning the bulk of his campaign into a race issue. This situation and in my opinion his ineffective response has helped his campaign lose a lot of momentum has boosted Hillary's. It is also why it is very logical to say that even a couple of weeks in a campaign can bring about very dramatic changes. A month ago, nobody would've thought that Obama would experience this type of fall from grace so to speak. The interesting thing is the problem he is having right now, is 100% his doing.
Good points Kirk. Also, he's never really run into a problem, none of these 'issues' have ever come up for Obama, and clearly he doesn't know how to deal with them. Is that the person you want dealing with potentially dangerous situations while in office? I don't.
No, he doesn't. In fact listening to him on Anderson Cooper, I thought he might pull a Hillary style cry fest.
The thing about Wright is, he is/was at least respected enough to get invited to Bill Clinton's prayer breakfast during the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, so Wright can't be all "God Damn America". From what I have seen, the divisive, racist, anti-american sermons are few and far between compared to the more traditional and valuable work he delivers. Is Phelps the same way? Again, I don't know. I do know that he pulls some stupid shit with regards to homosexuals and soldier funerals. If that's all his church exists for, then, yeah, I'd have an issue with any candidate that sits in the pews. If that *is* the case, Wright and Phelps are nowhere near in the same league.
WHAT? Are you insane? Obama delivered what most are calling the greatest speech on race in the last 40 years. He confronted the issue head on, which is more than you can say for any politician. He hit a home run, if you ask me.
You failed to support it and you keep failing to support it. That is the only relevent *cough* Fact at issue here. But do continue to keep distracting from the argument, Spanky. It's quite entertaining.
Your support for Obama blinds you. Its funny....the 'greatest speech in the last 40 years' talked about racial stereotyping....and the NEXT day, Obama racially stereotypes us white folks. So much for the 'greatest speech in the last 40 years.'
