Official Star Wars: TFA Review Thread (SPOILERS!!!)

Upon reflection, Rey is John Cena.

Lucas interview (about an hour)

“They looked at the stories, and they said, ‘We want to make something for the fans’….They decided they didn’t want to use those stories, they decided they were going to do their own thing….​

What a concept! Make a piece of entertainment that the audience will like!

I'm pretty annoyed by the Lucas butthurt. If he didn't want somebody else to have creative control, he shouldn't have sold. It's that simple. And the fact is, Disney came up with a better story than his last four, so he should just shut the fuck up and retire with dignity.

Yeah. His true success was Industrial Light and Magic, not Artistic Scripts and Dialog.

And hiring John Williams. Disney knew enough to retain both of those features.

No. They didn't.

The overall product may be better, but the story is predictable, derivative and full of holes. I suspect that when the hype and love settles people will be able to see that more than they do now.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Beyond the hardcore fans who hated the prequals yet love this one the critics who haven't had a nice thing to say about Star Wars since the OT are giving it glowing reviews.

Don't even try and say its success is because of the hype. Hype will only buy you one weekend at best. Just look at movies like Fantastic Four. If a movie is crap it dies very quickly. TFA has reached a billion faster than any movie in history and its continued strong performance is due to good word of mouth and people loving it so much that they're paying to see it again. Just deal with the fact that your opinion is one only shared by a tiny minority.

Who said it was crap?

TFA was good fun, but just this morning I was noticing that it didn't affect me in any way, by which I mean it doesn't feel like there was anything really epic in it. Rey's powers came far too easily to her. She didn't really have to struggle to define herself. Whereas Luke was pretty clueless in the first one, he suffered horrendous trauma and displacement: The death of his aunt and uncle, being away from home for the first time and in WAY over his head, losing Kenobi, meeting a princess, and then flying a strike mission because he could fly and the rebellion needed pilots. He barely got through it and we learned the phrase "use the Force." We also met Darth Vader in the opening and he was so huge, menacing, and iconic that he's been a cultural touchstone ever since.

In Empire Strikes Back we met Yoda, learned about Jedi training, saw Luke lift an X-wing and fight Vader, who turned out to be his father. But we lost Han. In Return of the Jedi things were kind of going downhill, but we met Ewoks, had a battle, and Leia learned who her father was. The Emperor was killed and Luke's father was "saved." Everyone was happy ever after.

The prequels were crap and we got a new iconic character, Jar Jar Binks, and lots of shit to bitch about.

This one avoided the pitfalls of the prequels (bad writing, directing, dialog, and cinematography that was way too busy), but it feels to me like we merely met two new characters and a cuter droid. Unlike Luke, Rey feels quite a bit like a Mary Sue where everything came to her with ease and that she was never really in any danger. The ace pilot was hardly an element at all, and Finn was almost a tag along who likewise seemed a bit of a Mary Sue because he could go toe-to-toe with the heir to Vader with little more than sanitation training.

In terms of visuals, dialog, and pacing it was perfectly fine, but in terms of something that we'll all reflect back on, was it that much more than a random but good episode of a Star Wars cartoon? Is the name "Kylo Ren" going to be on everyone's lips for the next 20 years? I don't think so, at least not based on this movie. People will barely remember that name a month from now. Based just on The Force Awakens, we're not going to see references to these characters in unrelated movies ten years later the way we did in Back tot he Future.

Perhaps my feeling is similar to that of comparing JJ Trek to some of the earlier movies like Wrath of Khan. JJ Trek might be much more fun to watch, but does it make and deep and long lasting impressions?

This is exactly how I felt, albeit it not for the same reasons.

For me it was play it safe, paint by numbers Star Wars. After the very experimental nature of the prequels, this felt like something as safe as it could possibly be to get the 30 and 40 year olds lining up to feel nostalgia. But it just felt a bit toothless. Empire was so different from New Hope, but this just felt like a lazy knock off of what came before.

I still enjoyed it, but I'd put it on par with Episode III. I think Return of the Jedi is vastly superior.

I wonder if they followed Michael Hauge's formula?


Discounting the 1:40 minute scroll at the beginning, TFA has a 133.5 minute run time, so the break points would be at 13.6 minutes, 34 minutes, 1 hr 8 minutes, 1 hr 40 minutes, and 2 hrs. The actual movie plays out like this:

Stage 1 - Setup
Living fully within Identity. We meet the pilot, Finn, Kylo Renn, and Rey.

13.4 minutes:
Turning Point 1, Opportunity: Rey first sees BB-8.

State 2 - New Situation
Glimpsing, Longing or Destiny, blah blah. Rey and Finn realize they need to get BB-8 to the Rebellion. Get chased.

34.0 minutes:
Turning Point 2, Change of Plans: Rey and Finn enter space with the Millenium Falcon.

Stage 3 - Progress
Vacillates between Identity and Essence. Rey and Finn meet Han and Chewie, see Max, she walks away from the lightsaber

1:08.0 minutes:
Turning Point 3, Point of No Return: The Order fires the planet killing weapon, killing planets.

Stage 4 - Complications & Higher Stakes
Fully committed to Essence but growing fear. Rey is captured. Han re-unites with Leia. They plan an assault.

1:40.0 minutes:
Turning Point 4, Major Setback: Rey and Finn are reunited on Starkiller base.

Stage 5 - Final Push
Retreats to Identity, then returns fully to Essence. Han is killed, Rey is beaten down, but rises again to beat Kylo Ren.

2:00.0 hours
Turning Point 5, Climax: Starkiller base blows up.

Stage 6 - Aftermath
Transformed Existence. Leia hugs Ren, who goes off with Chewie to find Luke, which they do.

Yeah, they pretty much followed the formulaic Hollywood movie formula for formulaic movies down to the second. That's definitely playing it safe.

Absolutely not!!! ROTJ was garbage, and ranks way down with the rest of the pre-trilogy. While it had some good ideas, Lucas fucked them all up. The Emperor was just a one-dimensional cackling villain who was as scary as a tribble, Vader was emasculated (as was Han), Leia being Luke's sisters was beyond fucking stupid, and don't even get me started on a second Death Star or those goddamn Ewoks!

The Force Awakens is like Casablanca next to that steaming pile of shit, and it's still more fun!

ROTJ isn't garbage and it's vastly superior to anything from the prequel trilogy.

But is it better than TFA? Not on your life.

George Lucas once said that he'd like to find every copy of the Star Wars Christmas Special and destroy them. He should take the billions he got from Disney and do the same for the prequels.

I like all seven episodes, but I stand by my statement that 7 is better than 6 and the PT. It is in the same class as 4 and 5, and Lucas knows that, which is what he can't stand.

I liked SWHS. C'mon didn't you ever wonder what Wookie sex was like?

Finn wasn't holding his own against Kylo. Kylo was fucking with him. Kylo could have just force choked Finn and been done with it. When Kylo got bored he fucked Finn up fast.

Rey was a different story.

Just watched it for the second time. I like it better the second time around. I was able to hear Obiwan and Yoda, really fucking cool.

It's interesting, you hear Alec Guiness and Ewan McGreggor. Alec Guiness says,"Rey" and Ewan says, "these are your first steps". Yoda says something about the force. I don't really remember the line, but I think it's similar to his lines in ESB.

Not quite. If that lucky slash didn't worked Kylo would have engaged Finn in a classic rap battle.

Oh shit mutherfuckas drop your gear in fear
'Cause Kylo Ren is here.
Let's get down to the nitty gritty
And talk about a bullshit biddy;
Talking about bitches from Jakku
They got no skillz and they ain't no Jedi.
Kylo in the big black mask
I'm so bad I'll kick Anakin's ass.
All you suckers that join the Resistance
I'll kick you out of existence

And Finn would respond with lines about kicking Kylo's ass and then flying off to shag his mother Leia.

The reason rap battles don't ever end with *force choke* is that the trick doesn't work on black men.

Disney should decanonize the prequels.

I was thinking the same thing recently. On the night of the premiere he seemed very congenial and easy going about the movie. After a week passes and the movie does big box office with great reviews from both critics and fans he starts acting like an ass. I think the fact the hardcore fans are saying "Star Wars is back" is what really sticks in his craw. He just can't accept the fact that most fans hated his prequals and are much more enjoying someone else making these movies.

Andy Serkis has said Snoke would be impossible to portray with practical effects, and I've read that they considering making the character female at one point, so I'm pretty sure it's not the Emperor.

In my view while Episode 3 was the best of the prequals it doesn't even come close to TFA. Putting aside the fact that in III most of what we saw on screen was all fake CGI,those lightsaber fights looked so fake and staged and just went on forever. Anakin deciding to abondan the light side and slaughter children to "save" padme was ludicrous. No one comits an act like that unless they are truly evil to begin with. One minute he's missing Obi Wan and the next he's ready to kill him? Not buying it. The result of order 66 while sad to see carried no emotional weight because we hardly knew any of these Jedi being killed. They were about as important as the by the numbers teenagers we see killed in slasher flicks. Just didn't feel anything watching them go one by one.

Contrast that with the characters we meet in the TFA. Within 15 minutes of their introduction I care about them and the journey they must take. The friendhips developed between Poe/Finn and Finn/Rey seemed more geniune than what we saw between Anakin/Kenobi through the entire prequals.

Ren as a bad guy had far more complexities than we ever saw from Darth Maul or Count Dooku. The part where he's fighting his emotions in order to kill his own father is something you would NEVER see in a Lucas controlled Star Wars film. Lucas wouldn't have the balls to film a scene like that. Remember this is the same Lucas who went back and ruined a good scene in A New Hope because he didn't like Han shooting a guy under the table in self defense.

While some of the beats might be similar to Episode 4 TFA is truly its own film. I had no idea how this story was going to unfold nor how it would end. With Episode III, I knew what was coming. Plus it just isn't as fun to watch. Episode 7 reminded me and many others why we liked Star Wars in the first place. IMO there's just no comparison.

Return of the Jedi is a good film but come on, it too repeated stuff with the whole "good guys got to destroy another death Star" bit. Some of the crappy stuff that we saw in the prequals started being shown here eg: annoying race of moronic caricatures for merchandising purposes, accidental deaths, cheap laughs, etc. What saved this movie was the final battle between luke and Vader and the Empire being destroyed once and for all. It is certainly the weakest of the original trilogy and I have no problem rating The Force Awakens above it.

One more thing to celebrate as a Star Wars fan: Lucas will not be going back and changing TFA or any other Star Wars film EVER again!

I just read the novelization, which strongly implies Snoke is previously unknown to those of us relying on the movies for knowledge of the SWverse. Also worth noting, it's clear from a line near the end that Kylo Ren knows Rey's identity. It is also implied that Lea knows who she is. I'm leaning a bit back toward the idea that they are in fact re-telling the Jacen/jana story.

Well, in the movie Kylo says, "what girl"? Implying he might know who she is. It doesn't seem like Snoke does though. Also, when Rey returns to the base with the others and Lea hugs her, it kind of seemed like she also knew who she was. In the flashback scene when she is first abandoned, it seems like she's left there for a reason. Also, Han talks to Maz about her. This is a conversation we don't see. Then Maz tells her that her family isn't coming back, implying Maz and Han probably know who she is. Maz also tells Rey that she is pretty much the only one that can convince Luke to return. Then you have the lightsaber that triggers the hallucination. I don't think it would do that unless she were connected to the Skywalker family. Then there's R2. He didn't come online until Rey showed up. Perhaps Luke instructed him to do so? R2 is notoriously the only droid to know exactly the plan. In RoTJ, he had the lightsaber hidden in him and of course the Death Star plans. She's got to be a Skywalker. I'd be really disappointed if she wasn't. Star Wars has always been said to be about the Skywalker family, so there's that too.

There's an idea circulating that Rey is a Kenobi, and Obi-Wan had the lightsaber in his possession far longer than Anakin and Luke combined. Some of the other similarities are that she lived alone on a desert planet, like Ben Kenobi did, and Han and Solo's child was apparently named after him. She also was very strong with the Jedi mind trick, one of Obi Wan's specialities (he was far better than his master Qui-Gon Jinn at it).

That could be, but I doubt it.

I don't know if there's anything in the cartoons or EU to support it, but it would make a nice circle if Kenobi taught Luke and Luke then teaches a Kenobi. And when Rey touched the lightsaber she heard Kenobi and Yoda, not Anakin, although hardly anybody would recognize Anakins older no-helmet voice if JJ had used it. She was also climbing around Star Killer base the same way Kenobi climbed around the Death Star.

Some other speculations focus on her name "Rey", which is Spanish for "king", implying she might have some connection to Padme.

Find the panda.

Rey heard Anakin killing the younglings and Luke yelling noooooo along with Yoda and Obiwan.