Pentagon Plans To Cut U.S. Military to pre World War II Levels!!

God Dammit!!!!!!



Will you stop that.

I was confused why so many agreed with you and then I got to the photon torpedos.

Normally democracies do pretty well at winning wars but not so well at preparing for them.

Dictatorships and other authoritarian govt. on the other hand do better at preparing (they don't need any kind of public approval to expand their military) but less well fighting one.

So you think the U.S. needs a dictatorship?

Authoritarian governments are more militaristic? Is the sky also blue?

Pointing out that cutting a fraction of the fraction of the money spent by cutting enough personnel to threaten our operational readiness isn't going to really do anything to cut back our massive military spending is apparently crazy now. As is pointing out that retiring old aircraft in lieu of new, expensive projects meant to replace them isn't going to save any money either, and pointing out that the various branches of the military has been forced by the government to purchase equipment it neither needs nor wants, as well as pointing out that whole military-industrial complex thing that's driving it all.

The military industrial complex (so called) is largely meaningless and was pretty much from the moment Eisenhower made that speech.

Remember Eisenhower was also the president who wanted to cut the size of the conventional military...and simply nuke opponents of the U.S.

You can't take bits and pieces of what Ike wanted regarding the military because they are all linked.

Gul and Ed were making idiotic inferences. I was saying (mainly in response to gul though it is largely pointless) that an enemy dictatorship of the U.S. can always arm itself for war more quickly than the U.S.

I just need the military industrial complex to hang in for another three years, m'kay?

"We are in the era of the thermonuclear bomb that can obliterate cities and can be delivered across continents. With such weapons, war has become, not just tragic, but preposterous."

And yet look at all the wars that have happened since that was said.

The F-15 was a "hangar queen" when I was in the Air force - 1980-1984. I can justy

Ten years for me! I can hardly wait to retire!

Because they didn't listen to Garamet. She tried to tell them!

Yep. They should've listened to the old man. The guys who start the wars have seldom been in one.

Legally, none. IIRC, Eisenhower was no fan of undeclared wars either.

But that said, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Invasion of Iraq. Three "wars" over the course of 54 years. One of which lasted just weeks (Desert Storm).

Be very wary of what any president (including Ike, Washington or Reagan) says on his way out the door. If it was so important and meant so much to them, why didn't they say or act on it while they were in office and still had power?

Most Americans have never been in a war and never will be. IIRC, as the last WWII veterans die off, the percentage of Americans who have ever served in the military in any capacity will drop from 10% to 5%.

As the drafted Vietnam War generation dies off (the youngest Vietnam War veteran is nearly 60 years old) that percentage will drop well below 5%.

Is American foreign policy to be made based on the opinions of less than 1/20th of the population?

He was warning against the rise of a military industrial complex, Scooter.

And he was right.

Witness things like the utterly broken procurement process and Congress wanting to keep building tanks even though we already have more than enough to meet any conceivable needs we might have.

Point taken. But today we have far, far less to worry about the "military industrial complex" than say in the 1970s or early 1980s. The number of major firms that depend primarily on military contracts to stay in business have IIRC plummeted. Less reliance on them, less need to spend money lobbying legislators.

I'd argue that fewer contractors makes the problem worse.

"Boeing? Your bid was too high and will take too long. We're going with McDonnell Douglas."

Now, MD is owned by Boeing.

When there's only one auto mechanic in your town, he can pretty much charge what he wants.

That would be a factor if most contracts for weapons procurement were competitive bidding. IIRC most are not for reasons too long to go into here.

IIRC, most contracts for large scale procurement are cost plus.

What's the ratio of students to teachers in your school?

That does not apply.

Seriously Garamet. (and others). Are you going to openly state that you believe ONLY those who have served in the military should make foreign & security policy for the United States?

And what makes them subject matter experts?

Would a noncom who served 20 years be an expert....if he never got out of logistics, driving a forklift or carrying a clipboard in a warehouse?

Would a decorated Marine who is a combat veteran with multiple tours be an expert....on the nations nuclear weapons arsenal?

What about a 30 year veteran who has never seen combat but yet has served as a teacher and training officer and is considered very well versed on tactics and theories?

You can go on and on and on trying to pin down what constitutes "subject matter experts"?

And what about elected officials?

IIRC, Abraham Lincoln never killed a man or even fired a shot in anger (he said his biggest battle in the Black Hawk War was with mosquitoes.

Yet I think he did a hell of a job as the commander in chief. Same with FDR.

Yet, after the Civil War we had combat veterans and military heroes line up out the door to be president.

How good were they? Overall, not very.

If it's only about numbers with you, it's perfectly applicable. My guess is you don't know the ratio any more than you know how to write like an educated adult.

"How much to fix my car, sir?"
"Depends - how much you got in your wallet?"

Dayton, do you consider yourself a military expert?

BTW, Dayton, teachers comprise less than 3/20th of the population of your school. So we can expect school policy to be made on the basis of the opinions of the students any day now...

He reads about it online, so yes since online accounts trump actual experience.