praise vs. punishment with children

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i think this study proved it's point, but was worded incorrectly. children learn how to do something more efficiently with praise, but what's the best method to teach them how not to do something (bad behavior)?

I agree that it's best to ignore the bad behavior, because behavior that gets no response tends to be less satisfying. But in the real world, where parents actually interact with children, that's not so feasible. With my kids, most of the bad behavior involves bothering one of my other kids, so there is a built-in response whether I acknowledge the behavior or not. Theory is good, practice is usually a bit messier.

I've said before, I was incredibly strict with daughter up to the age of two, and because of that, could ease off considerably as she got older. I don't think I've told her off about anything since she was 8 or 9, except maybe the mugs growing new life forms in her room that should've been in the dishwasher, when she was a young teenager...

Seems self-evident, doesn't it?

For the love of Christ, if you're the type of parent who subscribes to the "ignore bad behavior" mentality, leave your kids the fuck at home. The rest of humanity did not fucking sign on to put up with your shrieking fucking brats while you "teach" them by ignoring them.

The solution there is to take the child firmly by the arm, lean in close, and whisper very quietly, "If you don't stop that RIGHT NOW, we are NEVER coming here again."

The whispering alone will cause them to lower their volume, because they're curious to hear what you have to say.

Most of the time, they'll subside. If they don't, you march them out to the car and take them home - immediately. And follow through. Don't bring them with you, anywhere, for a period of time that you know and they don't. When they ask "Can we go...?" you shrug and say, "Nope, sorry. You acted up when we went to...You're not grownup enough to go anywhere for the next little while."

There'll be the obligatory period of whining, but if you don't give in, they will.

As for tantrums at home, you frog-march 'em into their room and close the door. Robbed of an audience, even the most stubborn kid will simmer down in under 60 seconds.

I actually agree with Albert.

Turning a blind eye to the shitty little five-year-old bullies kicking the crap out of their buddies in the sandbox definitely isn't the right way to go.

I understand that this may not be what you were all meaning, but I've seen too many of this type of parents.

a.

What a bunch of shit. Beat your kids. It'll prepare and condition them for the world to come. The sooner one realizes that life's a bitch, the sooner one grows up.

so hypothetical? your child finds matches and begins to set your living room curtains on fire... ignore them? i think not. punish them? i think so.

but i dont have kids so what do i know right?

You've been a child. You've dealt with them. That means you're qualified.

a.

Advice on child-rearing from anyone who doesn't have kids is not unlike going to a priest for marriage counseling...

i got beat when i was a litle kid. made me a rebellious teenager. my mother had a paddle that said. "spare the rod spoil the child" on it. i would beat that little kid till he didnt want to play with fire again. but that article suggests you leave him alone and let him burn the house down.

i want to know what YOU would do?

I got news for ya; have you been to the public schools lately?!?! Today's parents, based on the behavior of their spawn, are like the rejects from Jerry Springer who didn't make the cut.

Unless you're molesting, neglecting or injuring them with violence, I don't care how you raise your kids. My only interest in the subject is what level of annoyance I'm willing to tolerate in service of your child-rearing efforts, and that level is maybe a molecule or two above ZERO.

They weren't that much different during my brief teaching career in the 70s. But can you quantify whether each and every one of those kids was over-indulged, or beaten into submission? You can't. What you can do is assume that either extreme produces bad outcomes.

Kids need structure. They need consistency. You don't have to beat them, just don't reward them for bad behavior.

The parent in Wal-Mart who shoves a cookie in the kid's mouth or hands them the toy they're howling for just to shut them up may not be going to the same circle of hell as the parent whose kid ends up in the ER, but they're both failures.

Discipline in the form of punishment is important, IMHO. Kids need to learn and appreciate that life isn't all their way, not everyone thinks they are cute or will pander to their whims, and that inappropriate behaviour will result in a harsh reaction from other people around them. I'd rather that our spawn learn that from the OH and myself, rather than someone who doesn't care about how a spontaneous backlash will affect them.

That said, rewards seem to be highly effective, too. So some balance is required -- praise and reinforce excellent behaviour and chastise for the bad.

QFT.

THANK YOU!!!

*sheesh*...I love it how people who never had - or probably never will have - kids, have all sorts of advice on how kids should be raised.

True - but what flustered parent hasn't at least once, given them the cookie just because they were too tired for the drama.


And yeah, parents who let there kids run wild in movies and restaurants and stuff...that's just bad parenting. But on the other side you see parents in a grocery store yelling at and/or hitting a 2 or 3-year old when they reach for a cookie or candy bar or act up a little bit or just ask to many annoying questions. If you can't handle the little stuff, why the fuck did you have kids in the first place!?

Like garamet said, take 'em outside or something. Yeah, I've missed the end of a few movies or had to spend a few minutes standing outside with a rowdy kid. But it pays off, pretty soon they learn to listen. And nobody get's hit...or bit...or whatever.

Praise in public, spank in private.

Um, me. Daughter is strong willed, but when she was kid I was stronger. As far as I was concerned, that was my responsibility. Had I given in, she'd have thought the world revolved around her. I had to disabuse her of that delusion.

Some kids just need a good ass whuppin'.

It builds character.

Said it before, will say it again. If you "need" to hit your kid once they're too old for a brief swat on the diapered butt, you're doing something wrong.

I don't need it; the kids do.

Don't know what to tell you...

Some kids need it, some don't. Universal proclaimations are for arrogant, loudmouthed assholes.

I've not really had to do it all that much, but it's enough that they know I'll open up a can of Whoop Ass on 'em.

In all seriousness, I would speculate that that's the trick.

My two are so completely different from each other it's hard to believe they're siblings. Yet somehow they both managed to grow up to be civilized human beings without being spanked. Hmmm...

I bet your kids suck at life and you're just too stupid/arrogant to see.

Well, you'd be as wrong about that as you are about a lot of other things.