Shot for getting skittles

I don't reflexively side with my race.

But to be clear, the only "race" I recognize is human, and I tend to assume they're all assholes who need to die for some reason or another.

A statement that shows intent to kill? Or a reason for continuing to follow a suspicious person until the police were on scene?

"Can" doesn't mean "did." And the detective would be up shit creek if he led a witness into testimony that turned out to be inconsistent with later evidence.

That's an interesting turn of events. But it isn't reported whether this was heard before or after a shot.

Then maybe Our Hero shouldn't have been captain of the neighborhood watch.

And the fact that some posters are apparently unaware of the details of the case that are available, but are still willing to argue that this was a "good shoot," suggests they're more interested in rushing to the defense of Gun Owner vs. Perceived Threat of Gun Grabbers than anything else.

Here it could be a couple possible things. One, it's 'Whitey' frontin' and ain't no how Whitey's gonna tell a 'bro what's up (and I really hope it's not that or another variation of the race card).
Two, Martin was a teenager. Teenagers are not known to have much in the common sense department. Why you gettin' in my face for, huh?

Disagree. It's not the only thing that matters, and a big size difference can be overcome, but everything else being equal, size can be the deciding factor.

To a 17-year-old, that's ancient.

Some people aren't intimidated by bigger opponents. And Martin may not have known Zimmerman was armed, perhaps not even at the instant he was shot.

Speaking for myself, I have not claimed that this was a good shoot.

Only that there's not a whole lot of evidence that it wasn't.

Yeah, and the fact that you think nobody ever has a legitimate need for a firearm, that every problem a gun might solve could just as easily be handled with a folding umbrella and changing your routes doesn't color your perceptions one bit.

And preemptively, link this

Gotta disagree here.

If someone's following me and I realize they are following me I'm confronting them. I'm not leading them back to my house.

In fact I've done that driving. (not the confronting part but the not going to my house part)

What I'd like know is what kind of parent let's their kid roam through a neighborhood full of drunken heavily armed racists? When driving them to the store would be much safer.

It was probably a bit of both. And it might have been prevented if Zimmerman - the ostensible adult in the scenario - had identified himself as head of the neighborhood watch and simply told Martin to go on his way.

Or, yanno, followed the instructions of the dispatcher and backed off.

Point out those details that we are unaware of.

I'm stupid. I'll confront. Some day I'll be the dead guy in a story like this.

"Officer, he told me to put my gun away or he'd jam it up my ass sideways. I feared for my life and had to defend myself."

See, now, if anyone on the left had characterized gated communities like this...

That's the thing; everything else is never equal.

You got some 240 pound guy who judging form the picture I seen is more fat then muscle and probably out of shape going up against a kid who weighs allegedly 140 pounds but is a football player and since it's obvious from the football pictures is in great physical shape. Compared to the 240 pound guy.

And I doubt "Captain Neighborhood Watch" has any training in self-defense.

Zimmerman's 28. I posted his mugshot upthread. Despite that, Paladin's described him as an "old guy," and UA is thinking of Robert Picardo. Whattaya gonna do?

Wouldn't matter if he and/or the dead kid were green or purple or white on the right side and black on the left.

"He's a Gun Owner! Gunforge to the Rescue!!!!"

Oh wow......

Color me impressed.

I surrender. Clearly Zimmerman is guilty of capital murder and should get the death penalty based on your clearly superior observation of facts that Paladin and Uncle Albert were not aware of.

UA thinks Robert Picardo for the same reason I did. Zimmerman, a fictional character in Voyager, is the name of the creator of the character Robert Picardo played. So where does the old part come from?

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I think there's more than a few of us who think that Zimmerman is the one at fault here.

Zimmerman is at fault for being a dummy and letting the cops take care of it but that doesn't necessarily translate into being guilty of murder.

Some here can't understand that distinction.

What do you mean had?

Well, see, you spend more time out in the Real World covering stories like this than watching Voyager reruns, so you tend not to be reactive.

Nor does it perforce translate into "Dumb fuck, but it was still a 'good shoot'."

:lookinthemirror:

You look for links in your mirror? Well, that explains everything.

You're right: race doesn't matter. One shouldn't bring one's own racial baggage to the evaluation of a potential crime. It may cause one to read things into the situation that aren't really there.

I have no problem roasting a gun owner when one commits a crime. I don't have some "brotherly bond" with other gunowners, no more than I do with, say, people on the highway who drive Ford products. As a matter of fact, I'm probably harsher than most on people who misuse guns for the simple reason that it reflects badly on me as a gunowner.

However, the only reason I'm calling attention to the facts supporting Zimmerman's claim about self-defense is because the facts support Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

I'm surprised how many here are so quick to charge Zimmerman, not because of any evidence in the case, but out of some "feeling" that something isn't right.

If the facts change (or significant new ones come forward), I will change my opinion. If it comes out that Zimmerman shot Martin in cold blood, then I will gladly see Zimmerman hang.

What matters is if it's a legal shoot. It was dumb as hell. Could have been avoided but it looks like it was a legal shoot. Unless the police have evidence they haven't told the public yet.

It looks to me that all I need to know is that Zimmerman created the situation (fairly obvious that this is the case) and that this situation resulted in Zimmerman killing someone who didn't need to be killed.

In a sane world Zimmerman would be guilty of manslaughter AT LEAST.

And the kid has no responsibility for anything?

What if Zimmerman had told the kid to wait because the police were on the way and then the kid flipped out and attacked Zimmerman?

Still think Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter?

In all seriousness: are you determined to blame Zimmerman no matter what Martin's actions were?

The situation you say Zimmerman created is arbitrary. Martin created the situation by walking around at night in dark clothing; that's creating a situation isn't it?

Well, he has every right to, you'd say. He wasn't breaking any law.

Fine. And Zimmerman had every right to follow a person who viewed as suspicious. He wasn't breaking any law.

CREATING THE SITUATION! CREATING THE SITUATION! You say.

If Martin noticed Zimmerman and chose to confront him, why isn't THAT also creating a situation? If Martin subsequently attacked Zimmerman, why isn't THAT also creating a situation?

At no point did Zimmerman "create a situation" that doomed Martin to death. Martin could've continued on his way, in which case Zimmerman would've seen that he was going to a local house. Martin could've taken off running, and doubtless Zimmerman would not have been able to catch him. Martin could've asked "Hey, man. Why are you following me?" A little discussion would've averted tragedy.

*IF* Martin initiated violence, Zimmerman is guilty of nothing.

I'm judging only on the available evidence.

If more evidence turns up, I'll alter my opinion to suit.

As I see it, the available evidence looks really bad for Zimmerman.

You and a couple others keep saying stuff like this but so far none of the available evidence that we've seen in this thread supports your argument that things look bad for Zimmerman.

If anything it's looking good for him.

Tell me what I'm missing for you to make such an argument.