So what is Critical Race Theory?

No, I said exactly what I mean. When everyone is made to pay for something that you cannot opt out of, it becomes an excuse for the central authority administering it to interfere with any personal activity that may affect those costs. Examples would be doing drugs or eating unhealthy foods due to the effect on health care costs.

lol. He's very human. Rides his bicycle to work. Buys groceries. Does his laundry. ... pulls off the side of the road to pick up trash in the middle of the road that everyone else drives around.

Honestly, its weird on this board because if you knew us in person, you'd be like "UA, you're such a nice guy. Why are you in a relationship with such a bitch?"

Actually, not having a central authority administering that is ultimately more expensive as the cost to repair a body is higher than the cost to maintain the body. And, we are a civilized society. We are not going to just let people die in the streets.

It is not a "gain" if the tradeoff is personal freedom. And I have already explained how with abundant clarity.

I'm not sure where that trade off happens.

You've indicated your belief that the associated cost would lead to controls on behaviour yet I live in a country with nationalised healthcare.

I'm not sure your theory has any basis in the reality I observe. On the contrary I'd argue that having already paid for that healthcare via taxes makes people more inclined to make use of their freedom.

How many people avoid contact sports or strenuous exercise for fear of incurring higher insurance premiums?

What personal freedom is lost by insisting corporations pay taxes?
What personal freedom is lost by paying into a central pool to cover the cost of healthcare as opposed to paying private companies that may or may not pay out when you need healthcare?
What personal freedom is lost by being decent human beings?

Has UA got me on ignore?

Or pay labor commensurate with the revenue of the business? If you don't make any money without employees, then the employees should be paid more than the least amount required by law.

I doubt it. That's not his style. But, he may just be scrolling past your posts. I do that rather than respond to certain posters. I have to say though, when it comes to discussing issues, I'd rather discuss with you or Bailey. You both seem pretty calm discussing current events. I... I think I used to be like that. I know in college, my friends and I would get drunk and discuss all sorts of controversial topics and still woke up friends the next morning. But, I think I've lost too much of my patience over the years.

I like hearing other people's opinions.

By and large I don't subscribe to the belief that many people set out to be knowingly malicious and for the most part anyone choosing to debate these issues does in fact care. Our differences usually come down to what we believe is the best way forward.

I try to argue my case coherently and if people can genuinely pick it apart hopefully be big and ugly enough to adjust my worldview to suit, but every now and then I do get prone to trying to win.

I can actually assimilate that description of UA with my image of him, I picture him cleaning up the rubbish but becoming increasingly frustrated that it was left in the first place and complaining that people won't take responsibility for their own trash.

Am I a million miles off?

No, that's exactly it. And he's not alone. I am as well. But, as you said, we have differing ideas of the best way forward.

To be honest that picking up the rubbish thing was a bit of a light bulb moment. Suddenly a lot of his posting makes a great deal more sense.

Where have I suggested it was?

Asked and answered.

Collectivism is not synonymous with decency.

Then you are unaware of things like bans on soda or restrictions on portion sizes.

Yes, he is. Because they aren't happening in our nationalised universal healthcare system. No-one is telling me I don't get free treatment because I had a bag of crisps and a choccy bar.

About the most you might see is a requirement to lose weight prior to some treatments, but that's as much to ensure you won't suffer complications as it is to keep costs down.

We all do.

Oh wait . . . . . . shit.

Oh, I may have conflated your posts about personal freedom with the posts against forcing corporations to pay their people and pay taxes like normal people would have to.

Should we also let people drive drunk?

Never said it was. But then, I never used the word 'collectivism'.

Here's a funny story.

Back in the early 90s when I was still young and carefree - and militantly feminist and environmentalist - I'm sitting in the back seat of my brother's ...(think it was a blazer) SUV, the kind with only two doors and whoever was in the backseat had to climb over the front seat. Anyway, we're sitting at a stop light and passenger in the car in front of us tosses a beer can out the window. I told my sister in law "let me out, I need to give that back to him and let him know he dropped it." My sister in law was like "Are you crazy?! You are in Texas. You will get shot for shit like that." and she wouldn't let me out.

Can you cite real examples of this happening in the western world today, or is this just paranoia or excuse making?

Canada has socialized medicine, yet recreational cannabis was legalized nationally, and you can still buy deep fried Oreos at the carnival or go to Denny's whenever you like. Overall that's more freedom than America has, isn't it?

my corporate negotiated health insurance requires I get a biometric screening yearly. If I fail 3 out of 5 parameters or smoke, I pay $150 more per month for it.

Is this an example of a central authority interfering with my personal activity? It sure feels like it.

Conversely, when I lived in France. I went to the doctor when I felt I needed to and submitted the receipt to the national health insurance. If the doctor ordered it insurance paid for it.

Now I live a life where my insurance company has to approve procedures, not my doctor and me.

WTF does this have to do with critical race theory?

That's a cute little hair split, but it doesn't have to originate within the health care system for a government official to cite the extra costs associated with the resulting health problems. All well and good, until you are no longer allowed to opt out entirely.

There are no bans on soda or restrictions on portion sizes.

There is a sugar tax, which is a premium on the VAT on sugary drinks, but nowhere near what you'd pay for higher premium should you develop diabetes.

We both have our safety nets, it's just that yours has to make a profit.

Yes there fucking are. They tried that fascist horse shit in New York, at least for awhile.

And failed presumably, like prohibition and the war on drugs.

Silly thing to try really but we were talking about the UK where we have actual universal, nationalised, free to use, world class unlimited access healthcare.

And lots of sugary snacks to boot

And rationing and wait lists?

You really do believe all the fucking shit you see on the internet, as long as it backs your manly libertarian fantasy world, don't you?

Yes, you might have to wait for an appointment. Ring your doctor tomorrow and see when he can fit you in. I'll bet even you will have to wait... unless you can PAY. But you're going to pay regardless, and FAR more than I will.

The difference is, I can pay as well if I like - private healthcare is always an option.

But if I do go with the NHS, I won't get stuck with a bill for several thousand. Or several hundred thousand.

If I have to exercise some patience to avoid the life-crippling costs your supposed "greatest nation" inflicts on folk, I can fucking wait.

Your system also includes long waits, and more, unless you have cash. Mine treats all equally, regardless of ability to pay. And while I'm sure you'd like to think otherwise, it does a much BETTER job for the average patient than yours. But then you think poor folk should die if they can't pay, so fuck you.

As for rationing?

Which are by and large the result of the massive budget cuts we've seen under successive tory (republican to you) governments.

It's not a difficult strategy to undermine a thing when you hold the purse strings, but even with those cuts we are still delivering far and away better outcomes than most of the developed world.

Without turning people away or bankrupting them. Nor do we coerce you to change your lifestyle by hiking insurance premiums.

Japan has us beat, mind you, no question there.

Thank you.

When I was in the process of enlisting, I needed a waiver for my food allergy. Specifically, the Navy needed to rule out an egg allergy as flu shots are required. I had to wait a full 8 fucking weeks to be seen for a 20 minute screening because the doctor that accepted my insurance was only there twice a fucking week and was the only clinic in my network in driving distance

AND I was paying out the ass.

Funny enough, it was my experience with the VA of all things that opened my eyes to what socialized medicine could look like. When I had bleeding outta my ass, I was able to get an appointment within 3 weeks versus the 3 months withs the bullshit plan I had at work at the time. The free therapy there is the reason the Acura dealership I worked at didn't get torched to the ground either. That's a net benefit to society

I walk right in whenever I need something.