The one where the magic tomato juice takes 25 years to work? I caught that one already and addressed it. Or did I miss another attempted rewrite? No matter, I'm still talking about the movie that was actually made and why it is a bad movie. It's just that what you were saying in regard to my complaints about plot holes doesn't quite match up with admitting that the movie could have been better. It's more like you're defending the movie for being bad, and that being made that way is the only possible way it could have been made. The "viewers are morons" argument, basically. Then why did you reward it and why do you insist that it was a good movie? It had more depth than Abrams Trek, but that ain't hard (just like beating up Mal). Serious? Not so much. In fact most of the movie seemed to be geared toward comedy. Dramatic? Again, not so much, more like melodrama. The movie pandered an awful lot, and that affected its quality. It really was a lot more about the action and everything else came off more as a stereotype than what the show was when it was on TV. It wasn't as bad as Abrams Trek or many other movies for that matter, but it was still bad. Serenity doesn't live up to that, so no. And all the fights, especially considering the number of them. Exactly, they didn't have all the Abrams fanboys on board. It's more likely than you apparently think. Plenty of movies are getting remakes lately. I guess the difference than is that I don't defend it or use it as an excuse for another bad movie being made. Every little bit helps, said the midget standing on a piece of paper. I'd go for a TOS-based movie, but more what I'm getting at is that there is more to the franchise than just what stories came out in the '60s. You could even make up new ones if you insist on making a TOS movie. Nothing keeps them from making up some new names and doing some "original" dumbed down dumb action sci-fi movie. And making a good movie would have just as much of a chance of filling their pockets, The way JJ made it is not the only way a Star Trek movie could have been done to make money, as I've already pointed out. And if you insist that making a bad movie is the only way to make money, then you can't argue that Abrams Trek was a good movie. You can't have it both ways.
Can't do that, sorry - I'm not the delusional type. Not that it matters, but when? Because deleted scenes don't count. Nothing that isn't in the movie counts. But really, it doesn't matter, because all this does is change the nature of the plot hole. Now instead of Nero and gang sitting on their asses for 25 years, it's the Klingons, who not only didn't take that ship apart to learn its secrets and exploit anything they might learn from it, they left it armed and apparently within reach of the prison they were keeping its crew in for all that time. So what were the Klingons doing for all that time? Why didn't they do anything that makes sense?
I remember at the TrekBBS suggesting a series of changes that could make Star Trek a far better movie. But I was told I would be ripping the heart out of the movie by eliminating the destruction of Vulcan, death of Amanda, Spock's relationship with Uhura, Scotty's little friend, Scotty materializing in the water tank, return the Enterprise to a more basic design, CGI some engineering sets, add some better expositionary dialogue, and a few more tweeks. Any movie can be made better. I've seen a fan edit proposal (in the form of a revised script online) that could make Star Trek V: The Final Frontier into a pretty good movie. I think Nemesis could be also upgraded to at least "above average".
That was suggested as a possible alternative explanation for why he waited IF you were going to have him wait at all. I then said there's no real reason movie-wise for him to get there at Kirk's birth. Let me be crystal clear: In my opinion, Nero need not have shown up ANY number of years early for the major plot points to work. the fact that I would alter the "recruiting Kirk" scene which would then necessitate a "seven years later" (or whatever) has no relation whatsoever to whether or not Nero waits. In fact, if you want to pic the last nit, you can probably tell it some way in which Kirk doesn't have to be recruited in the film at all and where he progresses to the center seat in a believable, if record setting, time frame. I was trying to limit my context by saying that you could solve the isolated problem of Kirk going directly from cadet to Captain with a very simple and uncomplicated fix. Your expanding it to multiple posts haranguing the idea that Nero waited is entirely beside THAT point. Either my communication skills or your comprehension skills are lacking. I never implied, as you seem to understand, that the movie stories have to be tied to or based on the actual 60's episodes or any other such thing. I was speaking of QUALITY of storytelling. Quibbles about production values or whatever aside - consider this list: The Cage Where No Man Has Gone Before The Corbomite Maneuver The Menagerie Balance of Terror Space Seed A Taste of Armageddon Errand of Mercy City on... Mirror Mirror The Doomsday Machine So on and so forth... I was and am suggesting that the sort of movie you are appealing for is one which would resemble such episodes in quality of story and storytelling - not that they would have any relationship to those specific stories! I am further suggesting that it would be highly unlikely such TYPE of stories would ever make it to the big screen under the Star Trek banner because they are not "BIG" stories. The suits will assume (correctly) that a "small" story in which Our Heroes save some distant alien planet from it's own foolishness, or whatever will NOT put asses in the seats. If Insurrection had been the finest example of a Star Trek story ever committed to film it would STILL not have made the sort of money they want to see from a flagship franchise. The sort of production you want? THAT sort of Star Trek must be made for TELEVISION (and I'd very much like for it to be) but now that it's in theaters, they will be reluctant to revert to the small screen (other than perhaps a "Clone Wars" type sideline. Personally, if you gave me god-like authority over Trek, I'd commission a TV series on AMC done to the standards seen in previous series on that network. Short of that, I'd commission a CGI animation with as good a photorealistic images as possible (like the FF movies) in an hour long format and essentially recreate the original cast in that window of their lives between V'Ger and TWOK. Making the sort of movie you are asking for would be somewhere below that (albiet far ahead of what JJ gave us). One thing Dayton has always been right about (I believe it was he who said it) - Star Trek, at it's best, is far better suited for a series than a movie. (So is Firefly BTW)) That opinion is not incompatible with a realization that no one who thinks like me or you is making the decisions or is going to be, and that within the context of what is realistically possible, JJ's product was a decent result. the rest of yur reply seems to be nothing more than an insistance on having the last word - so on those points you can have it.
I'm sure not going to take the trouble to write a script, or even a fan-fic novel, proving the point - but that said: yeah, I think I could plot out JJTrek better than what made it to screen - make it a better Trek story and maybe a better movie (though not remotely as much a "summer action blockbuster" I could not, however, have written the story from scratch - I'd just be riffing on the hard work they already did. I'm sure an actual writer cold do even better than me. It can definitely be done. But that is not inconstant with me having been entertained by the film.
That would be good, but I'd settle for "Transformers: Prime", level animation, an hour would be good, I'd settle for half hour like original TAS, set in the JJverse, set between JJTrek 1 & 2. My reasoning is thus: the explanation for the uniform, prop, cast, and set changes between "where no man has gone before", and "man trap", has been a year jump in the 5 year mission wherein a refit and staff rotation could have taken place. So, season 1 was really year 2, season 2 year 3, season 3 year 4, and TAS year 5. The last bears out in a line in "yesteryear", where in the alternate timeline where Spock is erased, and Kirk meets the Andorian science officer, McCoy says "you should know, he's been your science officer for 5 years!". Anyway, all that adds up to, year 1, and maybe bits of year 2, are actually missing. Even though JJverse is parallel, it lines up well enough, that NUTAS set in that era would fill that chunk in nicely. IMHO. And it won't bump into anything the new movies do. Aaand, if it's a hit, then they can jump ahead, and fill in the TMP-TWOK gap...
I don't disagree. but my point was more "what I'd have done INSTEAD of JJTrek" but that comes across poorly. Working with what we have to work with, your idea is fine. Although I'm real hung up on the high quality (not "cartoonish" animation - it ought look like nothing else on the air) Frankly, when you consider that for those five years you mention (well, four) you have accounted for - what? - maybe 200 days in all, you don't even need to confine yourself to the first year to have room to tell stories. something else I'd do, if I were the God of All Star Trek, is have DC Fontana or someone mine through all the best Trek Fiction written over the years for stories which could be adapted to the show, whatever show I happened to be doing.
I personally think you could take an episode like "The Doomsday Machine" and expand that basic 51 minute episode into one hell of a great movie. Start with the U.S.S. Constellation (don't make it an exact duplicate of the Enterprise, perhaps an upgraded though similar ship) Spend time with that crew for awhile as they eventually discover the Planet Killer, making their fates far more jarring. Feature the Constellation's prolonged (remember they completely exhausted their phaser banks, and presumably photon torpedoes) and ultimately futile battle. Go to the Constellations crew evacuation to a planet, then their horror as the planet is literally torn apart around them while a stunned Captain Decker has to listen to their screams as he pounds on a useless transporter console that won't work. Then go to the Enterprise crew and an extended version of their search for Constellation. The last half of the episode is similar to the aired episode but with the expanded and lengthened battle sequences. But at the end. After Spock speculates about the possible existence of other planet killers and the damaged Enterprise slowly flies away...........cut to a scene obviously in deep space of ANOTHER Doomsday Machine, steadily closing on another planet........... A lot of stuff you could make one hell of a movie out of.
You may have watched it, but gods only know what you saw. That was kinda the bad guy's goal, not to mention proof that he was bad/nuts. Considering how often populations and planets have been laid waste in Trek, Nero destroying a planet ain't out of the realm of possibility. It fulfills the story need to traumatize Spock and give the audience something 9/11ish in a sci-fi scale. Kirk lost his dad, Spock lost his mom. I don't believe it requires much though to realize what this means to their characters developing a bond as well as a shared hatred of Nero. versus his non relationship with Chapel in TOS? Also helps motivate Uhura's dislike of Kirk. This was actually an improvement given that they didn't bog us down with it or make Uhura all whiny like Chapel was over him. I appreciated that they could show them having a (mostly)professional relationship. Because there's never been comic relief in ST, and Scotty never provided any of it. maybe even more basic than the original? Like a toy rocket with a sparkler out the ass end? I'm sorry, but I've seen your future enterprise doodles and can't take you seriously here. Okay, you got me there. All the catwalks were cool, but the brewing kettles could've been dressed a little. This is why I wondered if you saw more than trailers and highlights. There's enough on screen to follow the plot without adding expository dialogue. By the time they have the new reality discussion, it's only a matter of underlining the fact. Besides, if they'd just talked about stuff rather than performing it, you would've complained from that angle. you mean like the sequence of the Rom crew being Klingon captives for most of the intervening time or Kirk's step dad being a putz before the car chase? Other than the oft mentioned Kirk as a drop out rather than a slacker, those are about the only two real holes. Next you'll be complaining about why they don't make music the way they did back in the 60's either...
I go back and forth on the movie. I think it is far better than the last two TNG movies. There are aspects of the movie, that I like. I do like seeing the shore leave time that Kirk, Bones, and Spock take together in Yosemite. I also didn't care for some of the creative liberties taken in the movie. Things like the turbolift shaft scene and the number of decks which portrayed, plus having the larger deck floors at the top of the ship, rather than the bottom, things like that. Having listened to William Shatners memories of making the movie, I think that what he had originally intended would've been a far more successful movie, then what we got. I think this movie, is the perfect example of what happens to a movie, when the accountants and pencil pushers are allowed to interfere with the creative process.
I don't grok the controversy over Nero waiting 25 years... regardless of any intervening events, he was ultimately waiting for Spock.
In honor of the turn this thread has taken, I rewatched the new Trek movie tonight. I really dig the music, especially the main theme. Not as much as TOS' theme, or the TMP/TNG theme, but I still like it.
Oh, and rewatching the movie, I don't really buy the "huge" size that the Enterprise is supposed to be. There are several shots (the one where the shuttle leaves the ship construction site, for one) that make it appear to be somewhat larger than the TOS or refit E, for sure, but not the supposed 700 meters that's supposedly the "official" size. Ex-Astris apparently agrees with me.
God Dayton, that's the worst designed Enterprise ever. The pimple on my arse would look better in space. It just looks like a large flying lump.
