star trek:into darkness (WARNING: SPOILERS as of 4/23/13)

Re: star trek:into darkness

Here is a link where Benedict Cumberbatch and Alice Eve talk about their characters in Star Trek into Darkness.

Alice says she is playing Carol Marcus and implies that, although her character was the mother of Kirk's son in TWOK, she may have a different fate in the new film.

Cumberbatch says his character, John Harrison, is something of a home-grown terrorist who causes a lot of destruction, but who is more than a two-dimensional villain. Cumberbatch says there is a nobility and morality in his character's actions.

Very interesting.

If Cumberbatch's character is meant to draw some sympathy, I wonder if that line about "How far would you go to protect your family?" might have some relevance to HIM as well as Kirk. I'm starting to think Cumberbatch's character might be

Re: star trek:into darkness

Let's list all the points there:

1. Saying your design lacked an obvious design lineage.

2. Saying your design was badly proportioned and lacked visual appeal.

3. Saying the JJPrise is obviously a Starfleet vessel.

3. Saying your design was as poorly conceived as most of your ideas.

I don't know if I've even seen your drawings, so am not commenting on it, but you think all those points are wrong?

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you mean the guy who was as much younger than Khan as David was younger than Kirk? dude was clearly born AFTER the exile.

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Yeah, but recognizable plus fucked up still equals recognizably fucked up.

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Congratulations, you've discovered Dayton's standard M.O.

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After what exile? On Ceti Alpha V?

No. Joachim is way older then that in Wrath of Khan.

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I might be way off on this, but I don't think more than about 10 years could have transpired between Space Seed and TWOK. Anybody born on Ceti Alpha V or VI would have been a kid.

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his form is nearly as off as is his functionality...

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15 years, actually.

Kirk: There's a man out there, that I haven't seen in 15 years, who's trying to kill me. You show me a son who would be happy to help him. How am I feeling? Old, worn out, useless.


All the members of Khan's group, save Khan himself, were the wrong age. There were no young kids that we saw get thawed out, so they must have been born after they arrived on Ceti Alpha V. Perhaps their genetic enhancements included a much shorter adolescences.

Oh, this article has links to photos and Paramount's official synopsis of them. A few details:

If that's right, I think we can put the whole unfrozen Khan business to bed.

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Paladin brought up the butterfly effect and I heard this on the radio about a book interview and found it interesting.

During WWII a German fighter came upon an American bomber that had been badly damaged. The German however felt it would be dishonorable to attack the bomber (the bomber didn't even try to shoot at the German) and escorted it as far as he could before finally turning away. The bomber made it back and 75 people were eventually impacted by this as they are the future family members of the surviving crew on the bomber.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ane-let-fly-safely-instead-shooting-down.html

Talk about butterfly effect.....

And it's still going because we have no idea what those 75 people have done with their lives.

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Going by actor's ages compared to plot points...

in 1982 Montalban was 62
Shatner was 51
Judson Scott who played Joachim was 30 (older than i thought be 5 years or so)

The events in the film were generally understood to be about 20 years after "Space Seed" so two things are evident:

1. unless Scott was playing a character implied to be much younger than his actual age (which sometimes happens of course)then he would have been a roughly 10 year old child during the events of "Space Seed" and we saw no children among that group.

2. More importantly for this conversation, since NuKirk is younger than OldKirk upon taking command* it can be rightly assumed that there is no perversion of the timeline which can logically make Joachim even an adult let alone 36 as Cumberbatch is.

In fact, 'batch is almost exactly the right age to be playing a contemporary of Khan if one assumes all the original augments were around the same age.


*Chris Pine is now 32, Shatner was 35 when TOS premiered.

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Jesus. Have none of you figured this out yet?

Cumberbatch is playing

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It's implied everywhere that it was about 20 years.

kirk was observing his 50th birthday and the general consensus was that he was 30 during the first season of TOS (although Shatner was 35) - at one point he says something to the effect that he had someone tryingto kill him that he hadn't seen in 20 years orsome such.

I did err in that i did not realize the guy playing Joechim (sp) was 30, I'd thought he was somewhat younger.

Still, ultimately, this amounts to another fuck up in continuity by Meyers (ala Khan recognizes Checkov)

I suppose one might ret-con by arguing that augments age more slowly but Khan certainly doesn't seem an example of that when you compare his two appearances.

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It was 15 years.

Which, would allow Kirk to be 35 like Shatner was.

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the shorter adolescence thing is a decent ret-con

I was wrong i guess about 20 years, though 15 makes a lot more sense given it aligns more nicely with thereal world time difference

And "khan-like" character? 1've said the whole thread: "Khan without being Khan"

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Maybe Cumberbatch is playing

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Oh, and I still say that "the only family Kirk has left" strongly implies the reason for his passion to catch the antagonist is because his (Kirk's) brother gets killed.

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Well, either your theory or my theory are the only things I can see giving gravitas to the whole villain situation.

Especially since Cumbersnatch is not playing Khan.

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Is there any mention of Kirk having a brother in nuTrek? I don't remember it. He had a step-father, but I don't recall the brother, nor do I recall any mention of his mother being dying. Or are they going to do an "80s TV thing" where a character suddenly starts talking about a friend/relative who is deeply important to them, but they've somehow failed to mention them before now and have nuKirk talk about his half-brother/mother dying some time before the film opens?

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As WAB noted, there were scenes filmed and on the DVD of Kirk and a brother that didn't make it into theaters.

Admittedly it could be the mom, or both, but it would be kind of hackish to kill Spock's mom in one movie and Kirk's in the next.

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So, it, like the torture scenes, didn't happen.

Given how nonexistent plot tends to be in JJ's movies (though he's better than tim Burton, but that ain't sayin' much), it could well be in there, then.

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Hackish is not outside Abrams & Co's scope.

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My presumption--and the intention of the writers--is that Joachim and Joaquin (Khan's right hand in the original "Space Seed" episode) are the same person. Although Joachim is a little young-looking, he's not so implausibly younger that he could not have been in "Space Seed." I could imagine that his youthfulness is just a consequence of good genetic engineering.

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all this...and my subsiquent musing about the gap between TWOK and TUC (and the comments abut the age of the Enterprise) reminds me that questions of time passage and relative age and such like are not new to Trek with the advent of JJ.

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Funny you posted that. One of my reporter friends did a story on those guys when he worked for CBS News in the early 90s. He posted it on his Facebook page today.

[wyt="Christmas War Story"]54gwls9E0Ug[/wyt]

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See? Butterfly effect!

It even affects us!

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Obviously the effects of Nero's time incursion move both forward and backward through time, just like the anti-time anomaly in AGT. Obviously.

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According to this article at Empire Magazine, it's all but confirmed that Benedict Cumberbatch's "John Harrison" is a brand new character not tied to previous Trek cannon.

So it's not Khan or any of his genetically-enhanced supermen. It's not Gary Mitchell with god-like powers. It's not even Harry Mudd since he's in Starfleet. Whomever John Harrison is, it sounds like he's an original character.

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Good!

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That could play well. I'm intrigued enough that I'll go see it in the theater. Since I have a job that'll pay for it, I won't even be out admittance if it blows.