star trek:into darkness (WARNING: SPOILERS as of 4/23/13)

Re: star trek:into darkness

The Shelter just got bumped with "Reported post by Dayton3".

Re: star trek:into darkness

Pretty cool. Slick marketing. And I'll bet that the trailer will be fairly mouth-watering as well.

Unfortunately the first movie was big on the style too, with very little substance.

Re: star trek:into darkness

It's a European (uk) poster. Note the date and the website. Maybe other regions will feature cities specific to the region.

Re: star trek:into darkness

In the Abramseverse the further from Eath, the late Vulcan, & the UFP you go, the MORE things are & wall be the EXACT SAME. ALL of those dangers & more are STILL there/out there in the Abramsverse. Spock Prime is ETHICALLY compelled to tell SOMEBODY (the right people, whoever they are?) about the dangers & pitfalls ahead & out in the Milky Way. LIVES are at stake, starting with muMcCoy's. Remember "For the World is Holow and I Have Touched the Sky"?

Anyway, there are COUNTLESS lives to save and Spock Prime can, and SHOULD, MUST do it. Spock Prime probably wouldn't know about ALL of the events & dangers in/from the Prime Universe, which would also exist in the Abramsverse, but ALOT of them.

Just some:

Talos

Lazarus

Khan

Space Amoeba

Doomsday Machine

Pyris VII

Kelvans

Redjac

V'GER

the Whale Probe

the unstable space near Tholia

Praxis

the Borg

the Dominion


plus many other things.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Another thing is all those in the Abramsverse would have a different quantum signature than Spock Prime and the late Nero and his mighty Narada. Orci &/or Kurtzman said the Abramsverse is a universe like those alternate/parallel universes in TNG's "Parallels". I wasn't too crazy about Trek 11, but I'm cool with that idea, as it fits/makes perfect sense, and IS consistent.

Anyway, & this is no defense of Abrams & Co., but as JJ Abrams himself said, decades of Trek Prime & its TV shows & movies aren't disappearing and WON'T. So between "Parallels", and that obvious reality, Abrams Trek ISN'T the end of Star Trek for those of us not too in love with it &/or deeply loathe and despise it.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Look who's talking. Oh, and you might want to remember what forum you're in.

Re: star trek:into darkness

There we go, Mitchell's carcass is animated by Redjac, and Mitchell's carcass gives Redjac the extra powers, and Redjac gives Mitchell the accent.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Well...he could remember being Jack The Ripper when he comes back to London.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Even if Spock could save the lives of all the Red Shirts who die over the decades, it's hard to say that it would be a good thing. In some of the examples you present, the characters learn important aspects of their own humanity and learn lessons by struggling through them. Also, there's the argument that it would have unexpected consequences. Who knows what could happen--Ensign Ricky the Red Shirt gets saved from energy being of the week, but he has been secretly plotting to kill Kirk and take the Enterprise as his own.

Re: star trek:into darkness

"Die! Die! Die! You'll all diiiiiie! ... guv'nor!"

Re: star trek:into darkness

There is no stake in NOT doing so... And if he has intelligence that helps, he knows he can do a lot to prevent harm. He would not be "Messing with the timeline"...

Re: star trek:into darkness

Well... my contacts in the movie industry gave me the whole deal. DON'T READ ON IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED!!!!

Re: star trek:into darkness

Okay, so if not Mitchell, it appears we're looking at some sort of super-being from the original series. Who else is there?

Someone mentioned Trelane upthread, but I don't think mass destruction is his thing.

Fuck it, I'm still saying Mitchell. With Alice Eve as Elizabeth Dehner.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Hey, maybe it totally is Jack the Ripper, like in that episode of B5!

Re: star trek:into darkness

Some of the movie posters for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country featured space battles.

For that matter IIRC, the "tag line" for The Undiscovered Country was

"The battle for peace has begun".

Re: star trek:into darkness

And then we got "The Battle for Paradise has begun" and "A generations final battle has begun".

Enough of that shit.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Which just goes to show I was right in my other thread about people who criticize Abramstrek are mocked with the idea that they believed Insurrection and Nemesis were good movies.

Thanks for the validation.

Re: star trek:into darkness

That's...not what that means...

Fuck it.

I like the poster.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Old Spock lived through City on the Edge of Forever. He understands unintended consequences. Further, he understands that whatever info he has from the original timeline simply doesn't apply in the Abramsverse. It would be pointless and shall we say, illogical, to think such information would be useful.

Re: star trek:into darkness

"The battle for a coherent plot and engaging characters has begun."

Re: star trek:into darkness

Now that would be a twist, bad guy is Captain Jack.

Finally get a Trek/Who crossover, and it's with a Torchwood character.

edit: possible spoilers, based on unconfirmed reports of the trailer

Re: star trek:into darkness

The battle for me not to roll my eyes at your posts has begun.

Re: star trek:into darkness

no such people exist.

Re: star trek:into darkness

I could see an argument for key, limited information.

for instance: planet killer shows up (which may or may not happen but IF it does) then he can say "hey, just pop it with a big enough antimatter bomb down the gullet and problem solved" and all he really ends up doing is saving the crew of one starship.
That's reasonable because logically, given that it is in fact a new time stream, he's not obliged to guard the outcomes present in the other time stream which may well in fact not occur anyway.

It's not a situation in which the logic of the Guardian applies because the time stream will never be reverted to align with the one he lived through.

Further, it is completely illogical to assume none of his memories have application. As someone has noted, only those things which flow from the point of divergence will necessarily be subject to being different. The doomsday machine WILL come because it's origin and course are outside that cone of eventualities. what happens once it arrives in the alpha quadrant might well be different of course.

Which, frankly, again begs the question - at what point did this timeline diverge?

I would suggest that the Nero incursion was a secondary diversion from a pre-existing diversion. Perhaps many pre-existing branches from the "prime" line that OldSpock remembers.

Re: star trek:into darkness

It's hard to imagine Spock not being pursued by all manner of parties for information on the future. However at the same time they already understand the idea of non-interference from the Prime Directive and he can point to the damage Nero was easily able to cause as an example of how it's too dangerous for him to interfere.

Re: star trek:into darkness

So, the new poster rips off Dark Knight Rises. Well, here is the new Nolan produced Man of Steel poster....



Anyone see the JJ Flare?

Re: star trek:into darkness

Good! It's boring enough in reruns.

Re: star trek:into darkness

Superman under arrest?

I bet someone finally realized, Lois banging him is technically like doing a horse from a legalistic standpoint.

Re: star trek:into darkness

here's a primer article on Trek time travel:

http://io9.com/5238315/6-theories-of-time-travel-in-star-trek

but few of these listed items really getto the point.

to me it seems there's two basic things going on:

1. via special intervention (e.g. the Guardian though there may be other similar situations) one can divert a time stream and then restore it. This may not, in fact, be what happens - it might be that an alternate stream IS created but that the differences are so subtle that they are washed out over enough intervening time. For instance, in COTEOF, in the course of setting things right, kirk and Spock do things that would not otherwise have happened - such as stealing a couple of suits of clothing and giving a cop an encounter with pointed ears. These WOULD be difference which would still exist even after Edith dies, but the effects were so small as to "wash out." Still, it would not be precisely true to say "all is as it was" of the whole time stream, only of the present day in which the Guardian makes that statement.

2. EVERY incursion in time creates a divergent time stream (and really, it''s quite impossible to know whether the stream considered "prime" throughout the Trek verse history is, in fact, the prime stream (also, under this theory one might argue that our own time stream is among those resulted from various incursions, or the actual prime)

If that's true, then surely some bright cookie has already cataloged all the various trek time events. The earliest intervention I can find, discounting various Q showboating to millions of years in the past and also discounting non-earth-centric events like the business with Zarabeth - is "Time's Arrow" which references 1893.

If you assign that as the prime intervention and move forward from there, you can do all sort of speculating. For instance, let us assume that the world in which Edith Keiller lived was secondary to the "Prime" which existed prior to 1893.

Then McCoy goes back inadvertently and creates a tertiary stream - and Kirk and Spock create what is actually a fourth stream but one who's 23rd century form is much like the the secondary stream such that the differences are irrelevant to our heroes.
and in THAT stream we find the events involving the fighter pilot in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" which creates yet another stream despite the "repairs", albeit one only very subtly different.

But wait, before we get to 1967 there's 1947 ("Little Green Men") so...you get the idea.

And of course, somewhere along the way you have to account for the Mirror Universe.

For me, in my personal Trek-view, the major divergence which created the Abrams-verse was First Contact. If that's true then it explains the inconsistencies which one might note between "Enterprise" and previous trek Canon along with setting the stage for the Nero Event as seen in JJ's film. The logical implication of that is that OldSpock as portrayed in that movie is NOT, in fact, "Spock prime" but the Spock of the verse in which time was diverted by the contamination of borg tech during the events of First Contact.

That one point is not as "neat" as i'd like but otherwise, this is the retcon which I find most satisfying.

Re: star trek:into darkness

I want to know why they think handcuffs work on the Man of, um, Steel.