Star Trek: Picard.

I'll give them points for internal consistency, the arrogant asshole JLP of Picard totally would have held a grudge against Ro for three decades. I'd like to think TNG Picard would have recognized that the Maquis were right and the Federation was wrong sooner or later, especially after Insurrection, but this Picard is the kind of person that would make the situation entirely about himself and his estranged surrogate daughter figure.

Surprisingly classy of Riker to not remind Ro of the time they banged.

I like the visual of the nacelle aflame... but that's impressive given the lack of atmosphere in the vacuum of space to keep the flame going...

So, Picard needs to get in touch with Janeway... Hmm... send an encrypted message to Laris and have her use her Romulan Tal'shiar skills to bypass Janeway's gatekeepers.

Until it actually happens before the end of the season, I'm calling a missed opportunity to have William Boimler and Section 31 involved in all of this

So does Jack have some sort of dark passenger serial killer demon stuck inside him that he picked up unknowingly?

Or maybe he's manifesting some fucked up version of Traveler abilities, or the red door is somehow Q related? Maybe part of Q's last gift to Picard was to retcon Jack into existence, and then he inherited some of the power that was left over when the rest of the continuum died.

Or maybe he drank a glass of water that was actually the emperor of the changelings and this season is one big Futurama reference.

Speaking of JL and Janeway being tight, do you think they explored each other's bodies too?

-In what universe is Ro the two-time convicted criminal/prisoner above Worf in any hierarchy? Did Worf transfer into starfleet intelligence as an intern or something?

-Do you think Starfleet sentenced Voyager's maquis crew members to prison terms as well, or did Janeway get their sentences reduced to light torture?

-Shit-ass Vulcans justifying everything and anything by saying "it is logical" without elaborating is actually some excellent continuity. Respect.

-Changelings love bombs.

-It was dumb as hell for Shaw/Picard/Riker/Seven/Beverly to not immediately consider the possibility that the Intrepid was under changeling control. Sending a security team over in a shuttle instead of beaming in should have been a huge red flag. The dead changeling in sickbay should have been a huge red flag. Idiots.

-Hey, is Ensign LaForge related to anyone from TNG? I don't remember it coming up this week.

-I know the point of the episode was the Picard/Ro stuff, but it was weird we never saw the Intrepid's captain even once. Throw us a bone, make the captain one of Shaws old buddies but show them absolutely refusing to engage in small talk after they hail Titan. Do a little foreshadowing.

Thanks for planting that image in my head.
Because it's (opera echo) haaww-aw-aw-aw-awtt!!

Kinda makes you wonder if these sort are a genetically engineered sort of foot solider like the Jem Hadar and, kinda, the Weyoun. You'd still wonder, I guess, about the limit to humanoid form but maybe that's the tradeoff to gain the ability to pass the tests?

Michelle Forbes should have been live-action Aeon flux.
It would have been one of the best movies of the 90's.
We'd still be talking about it.

In what universe is Ro the two-time convicted criminal/prisoner above Worf in any hierarchy? Did Worf transfer into starfleet intelligence as an intern or something?

Likely related to Worf's statement that he's not **IN** Starfleet but is a "subcontractor"

That would make a hell of a lot more sense if they were Vorta enhanced with just enough shapeshifting ability to impersonate other people, with others like Vadiq enhanced just enough to establish some sort of direct connection to the Great Link.

Someone elsewhere said Jack is probably having

which actually kind of tracks. He could have inhaled one without realizing it, that's happened before.

And that's how you get your Sisko/Janeway/Archer orgy scene.

Why is the deflector thingy on the Intrepid shaped like that? Does the wormhole near DS9 require clitoral stimulation before it'll let a ship enter now?

I'm aware of that. There was also a Constitution class Defiant, but if I see that name on Picard, it had better be a small tactical escort with tucked-in nacelles.

Ro Laren was a character that no one expected to return, mainly because Michelle Forbes didn't leave Star Trek on exactly good terms.

The emotional impact of Ro's return, along with the theme of regret, duty, honour and morality was pretty much pitch-perfect. The fact that she sacrificed herself underscored that theme and was a perfect resolution to her story arc.

This one I'll give the writers credit and say they got it right.

Hate to say it, but I agree with WAB. The purpose of bringing Ro back was entirely for emotional/closure reasons. It didn't make sense to build that relationship in that season only for the next season she goes off in the same direction she had been headed and neither character expressed any .. anger, regret, etc.

Yes, I know, there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of other straggling storylines they could have gone with, but, Ro/Bajor/Changeling all makes sense. Especially if they're leading us in the wrong direction.

Voyager and DS9 both mention other "changelings". and if there's more than one type of "solid", stands to reason that there's more than one type of "changeling".

Also, with Jack, he's definitely hearing the same noise Picard heard at the beginning of First Contact. Maybe the nanoprobes got in his junk and Jack was born Borg. Perhaps, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Borg attempted to assimilate a changeling and these guys are the result. and they "know" Jack is their new leader.

There's a lot I liked about this episode and some things I didn't, but overall, I'd say that I've come to the conclusion that modern Trek just isn't for me. I like Strange New Worlds & Lower Decks.. Discovery presents interesting concepts but falls flat mostly. Picard? No. I hope it changes for me before this season is over, but I doubt it. With that said, I did enjoy this episode overall. I just don't think it's Star Trek as I know it. It never will be and I think that's what they want. Just another IP in space. Fine. I feel like an old guy yelling at Millennial & Gen Z writers to get the fuck off my Star Trek lawn.

I did like seeing Ro Laren. Loved it actually. The interaction between her & Picard was pitch perfect, given their history IMHO and quite frankly out of character for this show. The notion that she could be in any sort of position of authority for Starfleet is hard for me to accept, but.... OK. I loved it for what it was. Raffi & Worf is a duo I really enjoy seeing. And I like how they tied them to Ro and eventually Picard & Riker. Still very eager to see how they rope in Geordi & whoever Brent Spiner is going to play.

So.. now we got Jack fuckin' Wick? The more I'm seeing this character, the more he's getting on my nerves to be honest. I don't know where they are going with him but somehow I think I'm going to regret finding out.

Right? It's literally inconceivable that a single shapeshifter using the array of abilities that Odo and others demonstrated in DS9 (and keep in mind that Odo himself was memory-damaged, and relatively shitty at shapeshifting. He couldn't even look like other humanoids) that a Changeling who used half a brain would not have been able to retrieve Jack Crusher from the Titan in the first place before the Titan knew that the Changeling was on board, or even when they did learn of the presence of a shifter.

I mean, if you like Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks, that's half of "modern Trek." I am curious what in your mind makes Discovery and Picard dislikeable versus the other two.

Is it that Discovery and Picard are more heavily arced and (so far) they've been hit-or-miss in executing those arcs? Or something else?

I think, like Star Wars fans, the first stories about Trek or Wars was the action. the battles. and that's what some fans want. I don't blame them, I liked those stories too. But, I've also always been the kind of person who wonders "what happens after the happily ever after" and that's what Picard and Discover and Andor and Mandalorian are all about.

PIC and DSC have leant more into the dystopian than SNW or LD. Whilst it's a theme of our time that society can regress and we have to push back, Trek has always been more of a model as to what happens IF we push back, with regressive assholes being a minority for our heroes to show up as the tossers they are. Having the assholes garnering the support of the majority of the Federation (or even a significant minority) is a little TOO on the nose for just how fucked-up our current society is that we don't think we'll have largely stopped fighting those battles by the 25th or even the 31st Century.

Short version: the future shown in SNW and LD is still hopeful. PIC and DSC still show heroes but the future they exist in is no better than today.

I dunno, I think DSC has beaten back the 32nd century doldrums by season 4.


And they loosened up the pickle jar for Pike in season 2.

This is true. Back in the 1960s, people were not so opposed to having their beliefs questioned. Or ..., maybe they were just the kind of person who is easily swayed and there was nothing on tv showing an opposing opinion (black people really are bad) like there is on the internet.

So, yea, artists for the first time in human history, have to oppose a wall of opposition.

Generally poor writing, nonsensical plots and frustrating character motivations would be a good start when it comes to problems with Discovery. Very similar issues with Picard although this season so far is the best of the three.

Clearly, he was raised as a child with Vecna at the Hawkins National Laboratory.

One of the reasons why I love SNW, and Pike in particular, is that strong optimism. It's not clueless optimism or baseless optimism, it's optimism founded on principle backed by action. I love it.

I don’t like how the writers are shitting on Starfleet and 25th century society as a whole. Star Trek should be something for us to aspire to. It doesn’t have to be utopia… but come on! Can somebody cut the fucking lights on? I’m not saying go back to the old “We’re Starfleet. We don’t lie” days, but these writers seem to be projecting their cynicism in today’s society onto Starfleet and it’s just not Star Trek. Well, that’s Picard anyway.

Disco’s problem is their inability to maintain a good arc. Some of the ideas they introduce are very interesting… I just lose interest around ep 5 or so and it doesn’t pick back up til ep 11 or so. And honestly, Disco is probably the most diverse Star Trek ever with the exception of one demographic… straight white men. Not a single one, IIRC. Part of Star Trek’s appeal to me is that in the future, everyone learned to get along. Disco seems to be excluding white men and it’s intentional. Can’t show a straight white guy be subordinate to a black woman? It bothers me.

IMHO, Picard seems to be all action & nothing else.

LD, SNW, and Prodigy greatly benefit from being mainly episodic. Things might get grim and dark and hopeless in the middle of each episode, but usually by the end the good guys prevail, Starfleet ideals are upheld , the kids learn a lesson about friendship, whatever. DSC and PIC get there eventually too, but only after ten weeks of soul draining cynicism. If they dropped entire seasons at once it would be more excusable, but they don't.

Yeah, I dropped out halfway through the last season. It really dragged. Good arcs have their own mini-arcs to support them. Season two had enough subplots crammed in there to sustain itself, but three and four didn't.

Yeah, the primary straight white men (Lorca, Pike, Vance) have all been above Michael in the chain of command. Though there's an argument to be made that Saru and Spock count as straight white males since TPTB considered Tuvok counting as Voyager having a black guy. Ash Tyler probably counts too, since the actor is a mix of Pakistani, English, and Scottish, and Ash Tyler isn't exactly a Pakistani surname.

If you don't count aliens, holograms, or Arabs, DS9 only had O'Brien, and Voyager only had Tom Paris.

That class of ship is apparently Duderstadt class. Hmm, looks German or Dutch or something. I wonder...
Yeah, that makes sense.

I feel bad now because according to Memory Alpha, one of the guys who designed the ship named the class after his dead wife.

Maybe I shouldn't feel bad though, because, who names a dildo ship after their dead wife?

Really?

I mean …, I can see that. But, then, what is it about Picard that isn’t like “Trek”, but SNW is? Is it alien of the week? Is it taking on social issues?

I really am curious. I like all them for different reasons that can’t easily be put into words. So, … I guess I’m looking for … words.