The 10 Truths of Atheism - Setting the Record Straight on Non-Belief

What I know in my room is irrelevant if I am not going to communicate that information, and there is no other way of knowing.

It is him who brought up the on/off analogy, I was just pointing out why it is a bad example to use.

I agree with the mind blowing at the extraordinary amount of random things that had to happen for us to end up where we are now, while we look at that and see the random happenings of the universe however, religious people look and see it as evidence of god guiding his creation.

being.

No offense Bailey, but Agnosticism is really just a pussy form of Atheism. I used to be Agnostic until God came to me in a dream and told me to make up my fucking mind, and recommended Atheism.

If you did a little thinking, you'd realise the difference between a typo and a genuine spelling mistake.

You're correct in the sense as the term "agnostic" is usually used - to mean "I haven't decided either way". People holding this position would more properly call themselves weak athiests.

The original meaning of the term is more subtle and related to philosophical skepticism. A true agnostic would hold that the truth of metaphysical questions such as the existence of God are not just unknown, but in fact unknowable.

As such, it's possible to be an agnostic, yet also be a thiest or an athiest.

That's interesting, because I used to be much more strongly Athiest until I learnt more about science and was forced to accept that while I don't believe in a God of any sort, I can't by definition know what, if anything prompted the start of our universe, so I can't say with certainty it wasn't a God.

A lack of belief in God is not equal to a belief in a lack of God.

^You've started the conversion process

Conversion process? O_o

Converting to what exactly? The more I learn about the universe the more I also become convinced that no religions have the right answers so it's not like I'm drifting towards a belief in God.

You're becoming more theistic than atheistic.

Again, how so?

That's a Schrödinger's cat scenario. How did this thread become one about quantum physics

Actually, that's incorrect. Because it can be on or off, my understanding is that it is either on or off. Committing to a belief that it is one or the other requires me to give a shit. Since I'm not in the room with you, I don't give a shit whether the light is on or off.

Stepping out of the analogy, it is my understanding that there either is a God or there isn't. However, committing to a belief one way or the other requires me to give a shit. Since I'm not dead, I don't give a shit whether or not there's some cosmic dickhead wagging his finger at me.

In short, believing in one direction or the other regarding God requires me to care, and I simply don't care.

Does that clarify the atheist position somewhat?

Well, if we're gonna get into quantum shit, transisters have been found to have a middle state that's niether on nor off.
Flash memory is based on this principle somehow.

So, there's your fuckin agnosticism.

So STFU.

That sounds more like the agnostic position to be honest, since atheism is taking the lights off stance. I was making the same point you are, that the question ultimately isn't that relevant.

We're not gonna get into quantum shit, because nobody ever got burned at a quantum stake or beheaded with Schroedinger's scimitar for refusing to fall in line and worship a transistor. So STFU to you, too, pint-size.

Maybe they did, and we just chose to observe the outcome where that didn't happen.

Faaaahhhhck yoooouuu!!!

I'm not going to take anything you say about quantum physics seriously when you didn't finish high school

Oh, and you wrote niether instead of neither

Okay, let's try a different angle. Let's assume that atheism, rather than being a lack of belief, actually is a belief. Let's compare the beliefs.

Theists believe there is a god.
Atheists believe there is no god.

Two competing beliefs. What do they have at their disposal vis a vis proofs? Can theists produce a god, or show evidence that can be explained exclusively by the existence of a god?

Atheists, on the other hand, can produce truckloads of not-God. Look out your window, there's not-God all over your lawn -- it's everywhere, in fact.

Of course, we could go to the extreme end at which Christians cross over into either dishonesty or delusion and claim that God is everything - failing to note that when they take that tack, they're temporarily converting to Shintoism. Heh.

I did so, you fuckin moron.

People who base their conception of the world around them on 'maybe' tend to end up in rubber suits eating mushy peas with very safe plastic spoons and taking the really good drugs legally.

Those who base it on only yes/no don't fare much better.

I prefer dials to switches myself.

There there, I didn't mean to be that harsh

If you read carefully, you'll see that 'we can't "know" anything' is exactly what I am saying:

So except for the respective insults, I think we agree. There is nothing pretentious about making distinctions between beliefs and truth.

I also have to agree with Bailey - saying you don't know, is not a step towards believing - it's just rationality at its best. Even though there is no reason whatsoever for me to think there is a god, the possibility is there. Too many atheists pride themselves on being rational, while rationality itself precludes the conclusion that there is no god. Atheist therefore is a belief, just like theism.

More related to the original article (which by the way I think is a load of flame-bait putting words into the mouths of believers and atheists alike) I wonder how many people actually think that atheism has a missionary streak to it. I am all for providing some counterweight to the zealots, but if people don't bother me with their beliefs, I feel little need (but admittedly a small itch) to try to convince them of mine. I once had a gf who worried that me being an atheist would be considered threatening by her parents, but she relaxed when I said I was actually an agnostic She considered atheists to be (active) anti-theists. Perhaps that annoyed feeling that comes with someone trying to shove his/her belief down your throat does exist on both sides of the religious fence.

It's just that many believers drag their 'god' into every conversation, making nonbelievers think every mention of the g-word is an attempt at conversion or at least a challenge waiting to be answered.

If there are people who claim to be Christians and believe this, they must be very rare indeed. I do not know of any. (Though I suppose that with all the variations around of people who call themselves "Christians" it is not impossible.) But that certainly is not consistent with orthodox Christian beliefs, be it Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, or any other well-known group.

Could you cite your references for this group who call themselves Christians and yet claim that God is everything? This interests me. (I'm always interested in finding new variations of religions.)

And if I went around saying I can't "know" whether pink unicorns exist or not, I'd get some funny looks. Philosophy isn't constructive in the real world.

Every atheist I've ever met keeps quiet about it until they find out I'm an atheist - and then they only talk to ME about those things because people down here don't like to hear that kind of stuff. It's mostly a red state, very Christian, very Southern Baptist. Atheists here don't preach a damn thing about our beliefs. We let the church to the preaching and we keep quiet.

Which is just fine by me. I don't wanna get rid of churches. They do good things for people (missions trips, donations, helping people with bills, etc.).

No, I do get that - it may be a question we flat-out can't answer. But when faced with a True/False question that cannot be answered, the logically correct answer is always "False." Even if "Maybe" were allowed for, "False" is the only one that requires no evidence.

For someone who was just berating Diacanu about not understanding quantum physics to your high standards that joke sure flew right over your head didn't it?[/QUOTE]

Not at all, which is why I responded with one. Guess you're not a big fan of deadpan humor.

Out of curiosity, now that TM/Dendroica is gone, am I the token Jew on the board?

actormike is your brethren.