"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Most of the world hasn't taken a side. A good chunk of the Euro-West certainly has, but it's not clear cut beyond that, because Russia has dealings with a great many countries, and they'd rather keep their trade partnerships, even if they don't necessarily approve of what Russia is doing. I mean, the US does that too, with nations like Saudi Arabia, who violate human rights every day. Right now, India is buying oil from Russia at a significant discount. They have no interest in sanctions (good, because sanctions are brutal human rights violations). China will likely continue trading with Russia, because they're their neighbor. It would be like Germany demanding we no longer trade with Canada. We'd look at them like they were nuts.

I don't like Putin. He's definitely not a good man, but the truth is he's doing nothing different than what the US does on a regular basis in the Middle East. We say it's for freedom, and we have just as many bobbleheads nod and agree that it's a good thing we intervened. If Putin does the same thing (in this case, it's because Ukrainian Nazis were bombing the Donbas region, which gives him an excuse right there), then certainly there will be people who nod their heads and believe it whether it's true or not. Some Russians are protesting, and like in the US, protesters get arrested by police, often brutalized by police. The US and Russia are similar in that respect, diverging only where their histories come into play.

What the rest of the world, outside the Euro and Ameri-centric western aspects of it, decides to do towards Russia is still muddled, and unclear. Some might say Russia has gone too far, others might find it justifiable. Either way, just because the US says they should sanction Russia doesn't mean much anymore, especially in the Global South, where some nations are already considering alliances with Russia. The real action to watch is whether China, Russia, and India agree upon using China's Yuan reserve currency between one another, and allowing the US dollar to deflate. China doesn't have to listen to a word we say, nor should they, and they know this. They're on track to continue building rapidly while the US continues to deteriorate in its infrastructure, and its manufacturing capacities. They would be foolish to cut off their own growing future to placate the demands of the US, who often uses China as a convenient enemy when economies of scale come into play.

All of this is interconnected, and we're in a unique point in modern history where we might see a new alliance that pushes the US into a position of economic defense rather than offense. How the US comports itself going forward, whether it continue the bully pulpit or pull back and re-evaluate its role in all of this, remains to be seen.

Yeah, and covid is just like the flu.

You live in Canada. Deal with Trudeau.

I was waiting for this. Fuck off.

[ Toby Keith song ensues ]

Some of you are letting this get to your heads. Next you'll be calling Russian dressing Ukrainian dressing, and claiming Yuri Gagarin shouldn't be considered the first human in space.

Have fun with the armchair party, but don't let it consume you.

I can't find it now, but someone posted an analysis of where Russia is pumping most of their propaganda and it wasn't Europe or the US, it was in places like Africa. Something to be mindful of, I think.

This one @Tuckerfan ?

Nah. I'm done with any party where I can't put you on ignore.

"We'll put a boot in your ass it's the American way!"

[ angry country music sounds ]

Iraq was justified now and wasn't largely the case of a president wanting to settle a personal grudge?

Seems like inexperience in combat. Seems like what you would get with semi trained conscripts (AKA your basic grunt).

The clusterfuck is an interesting thing. I will give them credit that I did not see them trampling each other or falling over the guardrail.

If you can't see any difference between Iraq under Saddam and Ukraine under Zelenskyy, perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

Did I say that?

I hope Ukraine win, and once the invasion happened I was happy that Saddam got ousted, but in the willingness to use military force on flimsy pretexts the US and Russia have had many similarities over the years.

There was the willing fraud at worst and gross intelligence incompetence at best justifications for the invasion of Iraq. The US President lumping wildly different countries as an Axis Of Evil to be defeated and declaring that anyone not with the US in military action was against them.

We rightly mock Russia for the news that they are going to be having classes to ensure students have the correct attitude towards Ukraine, while the US makes kinds stand up every morning and chant their allegiance to the country before going off to job fairs where military recruiters try to entice them.

They have military prisons, including one just offshore on the territory of a country they refuse to have relations with, where people were kept for years without charge or access to fair legal representation, often after being smuggled around the world in covert operations.

The next president ramped up strikes that would often hit civilians, including ones in the territory of other nations.

The next president openly sucked up to Putin, tried to undermine NATO, and openly talked about how the US should be taking more of Iraq's resources for itself as tribute.

Under Biden things have definitely been trending in a good direction, and most of the time it can be argued convincingly that the US has had better intentions than Russia, but there are also a level of similarities which can be very disturbing.

The comparison is not ukraine and Iraq. It is US and Russian motivations. To put the comparison on the attacked countries is to be intellectually dishonest in order to make the US corruption look better. The reality is bullshit reasons for invading other sovereign nations suck. I actually feel bad for all the citizens and good people of Iraq who died because of the horrible US aggression in that country, and the destabilization in the area. We took a bad situation and made it much worse and were never going to do the necessary policing to bring "peace" to that country through locking their people down so no one would get hurt. We were never going to do that, and instead we just killing factions and arming people.

So really what the US has done in areas like Iraq and the middle east is make shit a lot worse than it had to be. The only reason you do not think that is so bad, is because you are a cruel idiot with no compassion or empathy for people who you are told are your enemies.

That's a stupid argument.

You would know.

Yeah, I really think the world is waiting to see where Algeria stands on this issue. Perhaps Jamaica will weigh in?

Jesus Christ that was a thick post. Pull your head out of your arse.

I think she mentioned some pof the important countries who have not said much yet. It is really interesting you cut that part out of the quote and then add a mocking response. This is about all that WAB has to offer. It is sad when the boy can form a more involved and realistic opinion than WAB can.

You make my point for me. The non-white nations (both Jamaica and Algeria are predominantly black and/or arabic) have little or nothing worth hearing. It also discounts both China and India, who also refuse to sanction Russia. That's 3 billion people.

This is a war of Euro and Ameri-centrism, of white folks who are livid that other white folks, who look like them, are being invaded. Meanwhile the US has engaged in massive cruelty to Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Honduras, Haiti, involving itself in the affairs of nations who try to take care of their own people but happen to sit on vast resources, and then there's what the US did to Ukraine in 2014, helping them overthrow a democratically elected government for a more pro-US energy regime. This is what the US does, and it's only important now because the people being attacked by Putin look European, which is easily translatable to white.

We're giving priority to Ukrainian refugees while other refugees, from countries we've bombed into craters, are desperately trying to get in. Other nations in Europe are doing the same. Zelenskyy has banned all opposition parties, and yeah, so many of you will continue to refuse to see it, but Ukraine has a big damned Nazi problem, and before some of you go "Zelenskyy is Jewish!" yeah, well Obama is black and racism in the US only increased under his presidency, culminating in Trump's run for the White House. At some point you have to realize the levers of power are being used in conjunction with identities to secure the fortunes of people who don't care about either. Up until a few months ago, Azov battalion was commented upon with great concern, but that has since stopped being a problem.

Some of you feel awfully patriotic towards a country you didn't even care about six months ago. That is the effectiveness of propaganda. Putin's a dick, a massive dick, but you only care about this because you've been conditioned to care. You are not immune to propaganda. None of us are. It takes constant effort not to let it wash over you and guide your thinking for you. Let's put it this way: the US will stop caring about Ukraine once they've served their purpose, just like the Democratic party stopped caring about kids in cages, and COVID deaths being the indicator of a terrible president.

All I wanted to do was caution all of you from letting it get your heads, that the mindset so many have adopted here is dangerous to everyone, not just the current enemy.
Enjoy your two minute hate.

We'll see.

She's not wrong I'm afraid.

We show nowhere near this level of empathy for people less similar to ourselves.

How many here can honestly say they've paid this much attention to the human rights abuses endemic in (for example) DRC?

Did we offer refugees our own homes en masse during the (still quite recent) conflicts there?

For that matter how many people sampled at random would even be aware of the situation there?

Interesting thread. Reporter is in Kharkiv, which is majority ethnic Russian.

The flip side of this is a whole bunch of supposed ‘anti-imperialists’ who are quick to condemn any western action in the global south seem to either not care or support someone who is explicitly trying to rebuild an empire.

Absolutely.

However this isn't merely about political affiliation, or even taking sides.

It's a broader observation that we tend to be more inclined to care about the plight of people who look like us, speak our language, wear the same clothes as us, subscribe to the same religion.

Intentionally or otherwise we apply a sliding scale of worth to other human beings.

No surprise at all.

Allows Johnson to look great paying people to take in refugees, knowing full well how few refugees will be able to correctly apply for those visas whilst in transit.

Look at the reception the Syrian refugees got when they reached the channel.