The attack on CRT is just the start

And THIS, kiddos, is what happens when you are so arrogant you feel entitled to discuss a topic you know fuck-all about.

Louder for the cement heads in the back

False comparisons.

I am not arguing against full context. I am explicitly arguing against "sins of the father" and "collective guilt" as justification for any sort of modern social/economic policy. This seems to be conditioning youths not to question it.

This has nothing to do with anything I said, and does not compare with any substantial equivalence. It's a bait-and-switch between historical facts and modern wish magic grievance culture.

Then refute it. How is equity to be achieved without promoting disadvantaged people by weighing their scores more heavily or just outright prioritizing them for admissions?

And are you seriously claiming that truly equal opportunity would still result in unequal results? If so, I'll hear no more from you about ignorance or denial of reality.

Freshman year is about teaching all students what they didn't learn in highschool.

The best students do AP and place out.

Most students drop out anyway.

Define equity.

And as keeps being pointed out, it's not that, so stop arguing against a thing that doesn't exist.
Dingbat.

I saw a good example on Facebook.

Say a guy who owns a store hates handicapped people, and goes out of his way to make the store inaccessible.
Then he finally dies, and the place finally goes on sale, and you buy it.
Yeah, it sucks that you have to put the ramps in he wouldn't, it's not your fault he was anti handicapped, but the ramps aren't going to put themselves in, and you don't wanna continue his policies by not putting them in.
Just like the absence of ramps, shit like red-lining, re-districting, and voter suppression don't undo themselves.
Turns out, saying "racism is over tralalalaa!" the last couple decades did fuck all.

You're gonna call that "sins of the father" anyway, aincha?

State yourself plainly. Are you saying that lesser achievement in high school leads to disadvantage in college, and if that lesser achievement can be in any way connected to effective institutional bias, "equity" demands they be advanced beyond the merits of that achievement? A different tier of tailored curriculum (and the implied extra time spent catching up, even if that means more time at school than peers), maybe. But there is nothing to be gained by admitting, passing and advancing someone who's credentials do not support it.

Use paragraphs. They help organize your argument.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Equity is helping students from backgrounds less likely to help them succeed in college. That's life.

Those that don't need the help can place out of it and save the costs and time.

Define equity.

I'm on board with knowing how the world I live in came to be.

I'm on board with encouraging people to think about the reasons.

I'd also argue entirely against the idea of collective guilt, but that's a long way from what is actually happening.

All history is revisionist and, contrary to popular opinion, I'd suggest that in itself is no bad thing provided the revision is towards a more honest version of events.

I know you are arguing with Dayton, and therefor the argument is going to get absurd, but the placing out thing does not work as intended because college is really fucked up.

the US college system is a customer service based pay for a degree system. Yes, they throw education at a student, and yes a student can absorb it, but a 4 year degree does not show any real expertise in any area, and it really does not show you learned jack and shit. When you get into masters and doctorate requirements for graduation there are more ways to specialize and have students be subjected to more tasks that prove they understand what they studied, but a 4 year degree is just bullshit. It does not mean a person who got a four year degree did not absorb the information because they might have. But there is not much difference between a person who got through high school based on doing busy work and a person who got through college doing the busy work and making sure they paid the bills.

I would say Hiring managers tend to realize if you spent 4 years in college and do not have any work experience, you are probably much worse off than someone straight out of high school who has some work experience and needs a job to survive. One is a lazy entitled bum who is going to complain a lot, and the other you can train and see where they land on the intelligence scale.

No, if bald-faced lies make it into history, you can never fix it, or that's lies too.
Because reasons.

You're right. They should make trade schools and community college tuition free.

Colleges need grants to apply to education, not rec centers and football.

The company I work for laid off people in bulk earlier this year. They then held mass recruiting at colleges.

I'm the happy recipient of two fresh grads. One is a competent asshole and the other is a sweet idiot. The asshole is also devout Muslim, can't work on Fridays. I wonder how this will work out.

Should I treat them equally?

Define "helping."

I have. Multiple times. It gets rejected because it isn't softballed in a comforting fog of flowery rationalizations.

Helping is providing remedial classes to make up for students coming from bumfuck ne teaching them highschool math, English and science.

Summarize in a couple sentences what you think equity is. Don't obscure it with bombastic histrionics.

What you call bombastic histrionics, UA calls TRUTH TO THE EXREEEEEEME!!
Weedlah weedlah wowww!!!

Read the goddamn thread. I gave it in one fucking sentence in post 58. Everyone rejected that without being able to articulate why. Then in post 75 I googled up some the friendlier versions saying the same thing in a way that makes rationalizing bullshitters more comfortable. Still not good enough.

So exactly what the fuck else do you want?

It's really annoying to me at my job when they prioritize hiring people with advanced degrees, when it's always the former retail workers and waitresses that perform best.

Uncle Albert- People who can't handle the truth and life are a bunch of pussies!!

Also Uncle Albert- I told the truth as best as as I could, and you meanies woon't eeeveeen liiistee-heh-heh-heeeenn!!!

Humor me. And hold the shouting.

This is why racism is so hard to root out. The very core of educating our young to participate in human society is most certainly conflicting for a child of color more than a white child. That is of fundamental importance to the desire to learn and how you see yourself fitting into society as an adult. School cannot shield children from those horrors without taking the children out of society.

So because America does not sanitize the racism from the developing black child we set the child against academia and intellectual achievement at a base level. This will cause a large number of black children to rebel against education because it is what the white oppressor teaches them. We can see evidence of this in how talking in a "black" way means disrupting the rules of white language and the same goes for music and art. However, the black student has to overcome that in the areas of math and science.

Holy shit, the more I see of the infection of racism and prejudice the more I know we have to fight and eradicate it. It is insidious and malicious.

Racism should actually be a sin.

One of the reasons I went so far in network engineering was that no one knew how to hire, and the certifications meant something. MCSE and CCNIE were not terribly hard for me to get back in the day. I did not need an A+ cert because my work experience and tech review on an interview showed that was folly. I came into places, talked to their techs, and because I had worked before in some place was hired. Even when the bubble burst I could still work off experience and wow them at the interview with my knowledge.

Then shit came out about me being trans and everything was gone. No one was talking to me anymore, the headhunters would not touch me, and it was getting back to me that I was out of the closet. There was no protection in NY at the time. I could not even go contract.

I was just lucky I did know how to do all sorts of real world shit they never teach you in school, and I also knew how to learn what I did not know, and I started my own paintball business. My rep was shot with a felony and being trans, so I made my own, and that blew up because people are people and greed, life, and divorce (Not mine) fuck things up.

You want a copy and paste? That's it. That's all I've got for you.

Equity in what context?

What outcomes can be guaranteed using this definition?

What's wrong with providing everyone what they need to succeed?

What is success?

Well, given that this is a thread about "critical race theory," do you think maybe education would be a good first guess? Fuck's sake.

Guaranteed access to secondary education and jobs would seem to be the logical straight line from there. Undermining the concept of merit in favor of the concept of entitlement. And yes, you must do exactly that to guarantee an outcome.

Subjective. I will not get behind a warped idea of "compassion" that insists everyone see the same result regardless of what they have done to achieve it. Nor will I lower my expectations of entire categories of people based on their perceived victimhood status. Some might call the desired result of such policies successful. I would not.

For example, if your "success" is "everyone graduates from high school," great. If you resort to silly horse shit like devaluing "objectivity" or "over-emphasis of getting the correct answer," I would obviously disagree with that approach. Teaching someone that they should not be expected to produce results until their feelings and unique perspective in the world have been fully accommodated is not preparing them to function as an adult. It's equipping them with excuses for failure, with further claims to special attention, access and compensation.

Jesus Christ, everything's either/or.
Either it's rigid adherence to a Robocop standard of perfection, or it's a strawman of Communism.

Guaranteed access is not a guarantee of success regardless of the definition of success.

What does guaranteed access mean to you?

Y'know, for such an alleged rugged individualist, UA sure despises non-conformity, and misfits, and wants everyone to be a good little cog for the corporate masters.

As far as I can tell, his cognitive dissonance avoidance mechanism is nor more sophisticated than plain old fashioned .

Hmm...y'know, maybe this drone mindset ties into his frothing fear/disgust with gender non-conformity in Trek.

Turn that on it's head for a second.

Suppose for the sake of argument that we can agree that for better or worse some people have the dice loaded either for or against them in life.

Your argument focuses on not allowing that to become an excuse because it teaches the wrong life lesson.

Fair enough, how does that work when the tables are turned? By allowing the system to be inherently loaded by default what life lessons are you teaching those for whom progress does not come in the face of an uphill battle?

Are you happy with the idea you are teaching kids to expect a privileged position in life?