The Official Dark Knight Countdown Thread

In a recent interview with Aaron Eckhart:

They tried, with the Supes-as-outsider, Supes-as-jilted-boyfriend/stalker, Supes-as-baby-daddy.

I think the root of it is that Batman just is a more interesting character than Superman. In all the incarnations of Superman, he's rarely been complex.

Whereas Batman has usually been so. Even when they both were in the more goofy, campy phase, Batman was more interesting.

It's equally obvious that Clark Kent is Superman, that only one person in Gotham could afford all the wonderful Bat-toys, etc. Comic-book people have a talent for overlooking the obvious.

There could even be a subplot, though, about the people of Gotham coming to realize that not only was Dent alive, not only has he become a freak, but the government lied about it. That would be a potential continuation of the parallel to realizations about what the government has done in the fight against terror.

While I don't think the parallel to McClellan was intentional, it seemed clear that the weasel in DK did know, and if he didn't, Lucius essentially told him with the line about if he thinks that Batman is one of the richest men in Gotham who gets off by beating up criminals and you're going to cross him.

Why?

With this movie, I think they established the notion of Batman not wanting amateurs working independently of him. Of course, they could tweak the character of Batgirl so that she's not. But I don't see an inherent advantage to Batgirl over Robin other than a Bat costume seems more realistic than a circus-based one, and I'd rather see a hot chick in Kevlar than a boy in an elf-outfit.

I finally saw it last night. It was friggin awesome!! I liked how The Joker was a real threat to Gotham without it being based on some fantastical plot involving ray guns, laughing gas or other cartoonish device. You got a real sense that if he weren't stopped the city would just implode. And it looked like no one could stop him. I also liked how Ledger portrayed Joker not just as a crazy, murdering psychopath but as a brillian criminal mastermind as well.

As far as the next villains go, I don't think anyone is really off the table except for Dr. Freeze and Killer Croc. A serious exploration of The Riddler could be genius if done right. Jim Carrey's Riddler was just a Frank Gorshin impersonation. A good Riddler could show the "detective" side of Batman more than just the gadgets and beat up the bad guys side that we've already seen. A Catwoman who is sort of inspired by Batman but in a wrong way would also work.

Just back.

My two cents - well directed with good performances from the leads, but it's too long and the story isn't up to much. Batman Begins was better.

I also say Riddler for the next movie.

Also, a good post on IMDB.

A resourceful Batgirl working independently of Batman, perhaps inspired by his saving her family, is far more plausible than the grim Batman of this universe deciding to adopt and train an orphan boy to fight alongside him. I couldn't see this Alfred (or Fox, for that matter) standing by and letting him do that.

Batgirl is someone Batman can't really stop from participating, which means he either has to help her or watch her fuck up and get herself killed. He's not going to let that happen to Gordons daughter, especially not after failing to save Rachel.

Some thoughts...

Rachel Dawes did not love Batman, she loved the non Batman Bruce Wayne. But the true Bruce Wayne is Batman, not the playboy persona that he puts out there. Rachel only agreed to be with Bruce when he gave up the Bat, then renigged when Harvey took the fall for him.

What does this all mean? With Rachel dying, one of the few people who knows Bruce's secret is gone, so is his only hope for a normal life. Enter Catwoman. Now you have a female character who doesn't give two shits about the Bruce Wayne persona, she loves Batman for who he is. She understands him, she unknowingly falls for the real Bruce Wayne. She of course has her own issues, and her own demons.

I think we'll see a big villain, (Riddler, Bane), but I think we'll see Selena Kyle fill the void and add a whole new dimension as Batman's love interest.

If they do Catwoman, I want to see this version implemented....


From Hush, the greatest Catwoman.

As much as the 18 year oold guy in me loves the idea of a Batgirl, it's a silly character in the Barbara Gordon incarnation.

Bruce Wayne spent half his life in training and conditionoining, learning from the world's masters...then comes home and still feels the need to throw millions of dollars into hardware to bring off a credible vigilante and Barbra Gordon is.....an ordinary girl in a homeade batsuit?

where does THAT get realistic?

Batgirl and Catwoman would be ridiculous characters for the Nolan universe. I wouldn't mind seeing the next movie go with the idea of Batman being hunted by the police while he himself tries to hunt a dark incarnation of the Riddler. Say something like the Riddler as a twisted and brilliant serial killer who taunts the Batman. A classic hunter/hunted kind of thing where the roles can switch in an instant.

It gets realistic when she's a really, really shitty Batgirl who has trouble with simple muggers and rapists, but still wont quit.

Then she gets crippled at the end and becomes Oracle.

^^^
THAT I could buy.

As long as it's a subplot no greater than Fox's role.

No Batgirl.

No Robin.

No exceptions.

^^
Well, they've already established the idea of copy-cats, so it's not a stretch to do a serious turn on Babs wanting to be a "Batgirl" and getting herself in danger, maybe creating some tension between the Comish and Bats, and resolve that in the end with the advent of Oracle.

There's nothing lightweight to that line if it's done right.

Robin would be VASTLY harder to do.

What Shep said.

What's the difference between Batgirl and the faux Batmen running around in TDK?




Other than "boobs."

^There isn't much difference, which is why there's arguably not much of a percentage in having Barbara become Batgirl/Oracle. Been there. Done that.

Then again, if it might eventually lead to a film version of "The Killing Joke," that would shatter that argument.

You're not supposed to take the "faux Batmen" seriously.

She wouldn't have to be "taken seriously" either, if you looked at my idea above. She could be just as incompetent as the faux Batmen, probably moreso.

The main difference would be that, instead of some anonymous idiots putting themselves in danger, it's a someone Batman and Gordon care about.

Eh, maybe.

But it's hard to do "incompetent superhero(ine)" without degenerating into farce. Also, after she gets her ass in danger the second or third time, the audience is going to see her as more of a problem than a likeable character.

Wanna go dark?

Have Gordon's daughter (fast forward to she's college-aged or so) get raped, then have her become a vigilante. She roams the night, like Batman (maybe without any special costume, though), and she kills bad people (maybe some not so bad). The police and Batman investigate, but the clues all point to Commissioner Gordon (she uses one of his guns, etc.). Have her be the 'B' story and the Riddler or somesuch the 'A' story and get the two plots to converge near the end...

Well, I finally made it out to see the movie Thursday afternoon. For the most part, I liked it fine, but I did have a few nits to pick with it. Starting with Ledger's Joker being all make-up and some scars borrowed from Ichi the Killer. I really would have preferred that the Joker have the dead white skin, and a sort of rictus grin, more reminiscent of Lon Chaney's Phantom of the Opera that Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker though.

And at the end of the picture,

Oh, and am I alone in thinking that it was hysterical that they had the mayor played by the same guy who played Batmanuel in The Tick? That's better than casting any of the former Batmans in the role!


One element which I wish they'd have brought out in the film, instead of only hinting at, was when the Joker's talking about how its "okay" when certain people die, but when others of them do, everyone starts panicking. He mentioned it, but I thought it would have been nice if they showed the population acting that way. (Sort of like how some people were perfectly content to live under the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction calmly, but are now having fits in this post-9/11 world.)

Ledger was pretty much perfect as the Joker, though I'd say that Jake Gyllenhaal could fill the role, since he's got experience "filling in" Ledger, as it were. I'm glad that they didn't do an origin story for the Joker. As someone who has only a passing interest in comic books/graphic novels, I'm not really interested in all the details of who this or that character is. I'm here to watch a bunch of costumed freaks beat the crap out of one another and hopefully trash the city while they're doing it.

IMHO, a neat take on the superhero idea that no one's done, would be if it was told closely from the perspective of someone who dealt with the superhero, but had no idea of who they really were, or who their villians really were. This would be more in tune with how most of the residents of a place like Gotham City or Metropolis see the superheroes and villians. Done right, you'd still have all the drama and action of a superhero flick, as well as the added mystery of who the hero really was.

Interesting, but I'd prefer to hear that from Nolan.

If they want a backstory on this Joker, let it be in a movie-based novel by Andrew Vacchs.

$314 million in 10 days.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.c...run-continues-stepbrothers-big-x-files-bombs/

$459 million in less than a month.

Should hit $500 million before all is said and done.

Haven't heard anything recently about who the next villian will be, but the funniest thing I've read is Nolan trying to be coy about whether he'll want to do a third film.

Uh, yeah. Collect your riches from Batman, and then you can spend the rest of your carrer making "small, personal films" and vanity projects to your hearts' content.

OK, I've seen it. Yeah, I see what people mean about it being too dark and depressing. Yes, I understand that it has "dark" right in the title. And that the character of The Joker is a homicidal maniac. But the film was just too relentlessly depressing for me.

I don't know. Maybe if they structure the films like a trilogy it will work. When "Empire Strikes Back" came out, I didn't like it very much either. If you've got "Begins" as the intro, "Dark Knight" as the setback/challenge, and whatever the next one is as the resolution, then I may wind up liking it a lot in the future. But right now, I didn't like it.

And they went overboard on CGI a couple places. The Batcycle was ridiculous. A cape on a motorcycle is pretty hard to buy anyhow. A cape on a motorcycle with now back fender is ludicrous. The movie should've ended the minute he got on that bike, when the back tire promptly wrapped his cape into it and choked him to death. And the Twoface effect was waaay over the top. There was no way I buy anyone could function in any capacity with their face looking the way his did. It destroyed all credibility for me.

It was OK, but I didn't like it near as much as "Spiderman II".

But a Billionaire running around in a costume chasing criminals and madmen passes the credibility test?

Besides, it's over the top because Two-Face is over the top. He looks like the guy in the comic aside from being blonde instead of a brunette. It isn't realistic, no...but neither is the Joker, The Batman or a good portion of the mythos.

But...so what? It's fiction. Just sit back and enjoy the show and forget "realism".

Yeah, at least it was somewhat believable, unlike the remake of King Kong where a guy who had never fired a gun is somehow able to accurately shoot, with a freakin' tommy gun, giant grasshoppers off of someone and not hurt them. I've never fired anything more powerful than a pellet gun, and were I in that dude's spot, I'd say I was sorry and aim for the head.

No, "relentlessly depressing" would be Schindler's List, a movie I've only seen once and have no intention of watching again.

Comparing apples to oranges. Spiderman II was very good (although I hated the use of the "leaving the groom at the alter" cliche at the end), but Spiderman was never meant to be as dark and brooding as Batman. Despite all the trials and tribulations Peter Parker has endured in his personal life, he has retained a sense of hope and humor.