Trump Actions

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by T.R, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...ive-orders.amp.html?client=ms-android-verizon


    • An order that directs federal agencies to ease the “regulatory burdens” of ObamaCare. It orders agencies to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement” of ObamaCare that imposes a “fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.”
    • An order imposing a hiring freeze for some federal government workers as a way to shrink the size of government. This excludes the military, as Trump noted at the signing.

    • He signed a notice that the U.S. will begin withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. Trump called the order "a great thing for the American worker."
      • An order to reinstate the so-called "Mexico City Policy" – a ban on federal funds to international groups that perform abortions or lobby to legalize or promote abortion. The policy was instituted in 1984 by President Reagan, but has gone into and out of effect depending on the party in power in the White House.
  2. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    21,592
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +36,663
    Well, that's specific. Shouldn't be any problems in implementing such a detailed, prescriptive and well-thought out order. Such leadership!

    Meaningless drivel, particularly since the military consumes a massive amount of the federal budget.

    Jury's still out on this one, but it may be the only thing President Trump did on Day One that will actually accomplish anything.

    A game of stupid political football that's been going on for decades. Stop messing around and deal with real problems.

    What an amazing Day One! President Trump has already accomplished so much! :dayton:
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  3. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    It's fairly masturbatory. As a lawyer friend of mine noted any government department that actually doesn't do the Obamacare will be sued immediately.

    Meh. TPP was dead in the water even without this executive order. I despise the TPP and was mystified by Obama's support for it. Talk about horrid corporate dystopias.

    The irony of course being that executive orders are totally fine when Trump does them, but a sign of imminent Constitution-destroying tyranny when Obama does them.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,572
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +58,211
    But not the VA. He just cut Veterans Care. I expect that will change shortly (the service orgs are very vocal and organized) but is a demonstration of how unthoughtout this all is.
    This weakens us. As I've pointed out the TPP was about making sure the 21st Century Economy was built American. There is a reason China was excluded, so that they would be forced to operate under our terms.

    Trump just gave China the power to set the new economic agenda. :clap:
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  5. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    This is the same tired bullshit that Obama was using to sell the TPP. The TPP was, of course, nothing of the sort- it was an investor protection deal which among other things enabled corporations to take sovereign governments to court for passing laws that might have cut their profits.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  6. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,572
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +58,211
    Ah, so just an oversight that the world's second largest economy was left out of the world's largest trade and invesdtment deal? A deal that includes all it's neighbors? You think an intern fucked up the address on the invitation and no-one noticed until the seating plan had already been drawn up and it was too late?

    Don't be an idiot. This package was about binding all the countries around China into the US led economic order and away from China.

    Now we've thrown that power away.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    8,111
    Ratings:
    +3,933
    The Prez will likely replace it with something that benefits America to a far greater extent. And you know what? You're going to love it.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Since nobody in any position to implement that order knows what those words mean, see the separate thread on the subject, this should fall under "Trump Words Instead of Actions".
  9. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    9,017
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +4,902

    "POOF ! a new power was created in the universe."

    "POOF ! oh, my, that new power is now gone."


    What a mockingly absurd world has been wrought by the fantasies created by geniuses & policy-paper-writers in Libtopia.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  10. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    It does weaken you in the way you describe, but at the same time, the conditions of the deal were unacceptable for any free society. Replacing it with something valuable would have been better, but the way it was, you should be glad to rid yourself of that bullshit.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  11. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    Sure, the problem is that that "US led economic order" is utter shit and not worth defending at all. How about a "US led economic order" where governments can be sued for failing to adequately protect workers and the environment, instead of for reducing corporate profits?
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    37,536
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +19,361
    I am pretty pro free trade but when 26 of 28 articles are not about trade then it is unfair to call it a trade agreement. The investor government dispute body replaced courts with corporate controlled bodies and gave them the power to sue governments for damages in perpetuity for ANY regulatory change.

    That clearly was a poison pill and reason enough to kill the TPP.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  13. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,572
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +58,211
    The US led economic and political order has led to the longest period of peace and economic expansion (including poverty reduction) in world history.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,572
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +58,211
    If that is what he was proposing to do I'd be more optimistic. However he has claimed we aren't going to do any more big deals but instead 1-on-1 trade deals.
  15. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    Let me give you a hint, Ancalagon. Allowing corporations to get rid of regulations and policies that cut into their profits by creating a legal liability for governments that implement such regulations and policies is going to be bad for both poverty reduction and peace.

    It's no coincidence that as the social safety net and the welfare state have eroded the far-right has re-emerged into the mainstream on both sides of the Atlantic.

    The thing is, if wealth were distributed more equitably, if the benefits of getting richer were converted into public goods, then poverty and war could have been reduced so much more. Capitalism is a system that creates such a material bounty, it makes people better off even as they're being robbed blind by the upper classes. That's the case in the developing countries, anyway, where the increase in the size of the pie can compensate to a degree for increasing inequality. In the advanced countries the game is far more zero-sum and treaties like the TPP will simply accelerate the transfer of wealth upward.
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  16. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    37,536
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +19,361
    I agree though it did it by being fundamentally fair. TPP is a complete break eith the past, it was a corporatr giveaway, and not a sound basis for a global economic order. Corporate controlled vodies which take the place of courts with no accountability that can assess unlimited damages based upon their word alone based upon ANY legal or regulatory change project out hundreds if not thousands of years when calculating damages? No, thank you?
  17. Nono

    Nono Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,224
    Location:
    Western Europe
    Ratings:
    +1,009
    The other odd thing about capitalism is that, when it's totally unleashed by deregulation, it soon beats itself to death.
    That was a great insight by FDR, who moved to save capitalism from itself.

    Another example would be that unscrupulous old capitalist Henry Ford, who realized that if he paid his workers a decent wage, they would be able to go out and buy his cars ...
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  18. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    37,536
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +19,361
    Jesus Christ, please stop claiming to know anything about the causes of the great depression or FDR's responses to it. I am a big FDR supporter but your inaccurate claims don't help.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  19. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    An TTP & Co are poised to radically alter it.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  20. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    TPP is more like the final nail in the coffin in that respect.
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  21. Nono

    Nono Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,224
    Location:
    Western Europe
    Ratings:
    +1,009
    Time for Dindins to take another one of those blue pills.
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  22. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    12,412
    Ratings:
    +27,520
    Trump orders the construction of the Keystone and Dakota pipelines, solid move IMO. Very Justin Trudeau of him. :techman: :techman:
    • Funny Funny x 2
  23. Aurora

    Aurora Vincerò!

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    27,169
    Location:
    Storage B
    Ratings:
    +9,325
    Destruction without replacement.
    MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI!!!!!!!
    Destruction without replacement.
    MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI!!!!!!!
    Destruction without replacement.
    MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI!!!!!!!
    Destruction without replacement.
    MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI!!!!!!!
    Destruction without replacement.
    MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI!!!!!!!

    = First few days. I wonder if anything constructive will come or if he'll just keep this up for four weeks and then resign because there is nothing left to destroy?
    • Agree Agree x 3
  24. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    51,920
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +5,412
    A whopping 25%.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  25. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    It's actually closer to 16% overall, but it's over half of discretionary spending.
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  26. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    51,920
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +5,412
    We spend more on Social Security and Medicare.
  27. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    12,412
    Ratings:
    +27,520
    You should be spending more on those things
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  28. Señor Hoint

    Señor Hoint Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    226
    Ratings:
    +335
    Yes, as we should. Any society that spends more on weapons than on taking care of people is one that isn't worth living in.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 1
  29. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    9,017
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +4,902
    Dismantling eight years with lots of bad EOs and legislation will take at least a few years. Grab an extra-large popcorn (the kind that needs a grocery cart).

    All legislation should consider sunset provisions but it's never included and government never gets smaller. But now, with Trump, some crap will be sunseted which is pretty rare and amazing.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    These moves were long overdue.
    • Agree Agree x 4