Trump bans Transgendered in military.

I continue to be amazed at how people miss the very blatant allegories in Star Trek.

You do know "Rejoined" was supporting gay marriage, right?

I've probably seen four (maybe five) episodes of DS9, so no, I didn't know "Rejoined" was about anything because I never watched it.

The Dax symbiont was sex-less and the hosts never changed gender. It's much cleaner and simpler than the current theology regarding gender.

I think it intentionally raised questions about gender, and featured a lesbian romance for fan service. I don't know that it positively promoted gay marriage as an institution.

Looking up info for this episode, I found that the script originally called for a male host, but Ron Moore suggested the change because he felt that was more in line to what Star Trek was about.

I mean, if Brannon Braga had written it, yeah, I wouldn't have trusted it either, but there was very little in the way of anyone addressing LGBTQ issues. Avery Brooks (who directed the episode) even kept reporters off the set, so I don't think it was about just fanservice. Seeing the way fans are acting now over the canon gay couple on Discovery, no way in hell could they have tried that with two men (even the comical kiss between Quark and the other Ferengi in Profit and Lace got censored).

I say it counts as positive lesbian rep, since neither of them were dead by the end of the episode.

This can be untrue from the outside for a reason. In order to avoid abuse and to fit in many trans people become good at living as society wants them to. Sometimes they can be very good at acting like they are fine. Just like some gay people can act like they are fine in a marriage to the opposite gender. This confuses some cisgendered people who think one day they chose to be trans. That is because those people do not recognise the trans person was living for others because those people are bullies and very very sick.

There is less and less of that as trans people can be who they are without societal abuse. This is often why the sick in our society see conversion therapy as working. The reality is severe abuse can force people to live in ways they would not and the right wing feels that if only they abuse the people enough those people will be happy living as others want when really it is the right wing that wants everyone to live as they do because they are fascists. The problem becomes it never really satisfies the right wing person because it is never good enough for them.

People have spent a long time trying to stay out of fascist people's way only to have the fascists be completely ungrateful they ever did anything for them. It is a mistake I don't advise making because the right will always see it as a choice because some people did it before for the sake of the little minded. It will never be seen as a sacrifice and those people won't get you were not yourself when you were living their life. Now it gets used against people because they tried to for a while.

Don't worry, he will probably be watching Roseanne fuck up explaining trans people in her new season. I am waiting for the episode where patsy and Edina come to give Roseanne her vagina back from trump. Poor woman had pussy grabber come up and just rip her shit out and toss her into the kitchen with her Christian hijab so she can make Dan some sandwiches and shame every female member of her family for having hopes and dreams in trumpland. It is what happens when you drink too much water in Michigan.

What.

The grandson wasn't trans on the show, he just liked being feminine. He even said that he identified as a boy, so I don't think they were intending on him being trans at all.

the issue with oldfella's obstinate point is the whole conversation is sort of talking past each other.

The scientific term is "phenotype" which is a reference to outward appearance and characteristics. Jenner, until a few years ago, exhibited a male phenotype. At the time of athletic competition, Jenner exhibited a male phenotype. Thus possessed of physical abilities that were, for a time, beyond those typically found among those with a female phenotype. In that sense, his observation is well founded though completely unnecessary since that point is not at all in dispute.

The counter argument is that at the same time Jenner's identity was and always has been female. The reason that this rebuttal continues to be repeated is because the salient point is that the reality of who and what a person is rests in their identity, not in their phenotype. How do we know this is true? Because people who are physically intersex n their phenotype, neither distinctly male or female in their outward traits, nevertheless almost always have a distinctly male or female identity.

It's true that gender identity, like physical phenotypes, is not a strictly and sharply divided binary, but the great majority of the population is clustered around opposing "poles" with a smaller number of people along a spectrum in between. there are far more people who are transsexual (i.e. phenotypically at one pole but identifying at the other) than there are non-binary type people in the middle. One would logically assume that intersex people would tend to be non-binary if physical phenotype had anything to do with identity. But that turns out not to be the case.

So both sides of that little debate are correct in what they intend to say but their intentions are not in conflict with each other.

Are we still talking about this?

"We", don't have to discuss anything.
You can take a swig of willpower, and stop clicking the thread.

I played with the boys for a long time and to know me when I was around them you would never guess. It was what I was supposed to do, and the world was way to big and scary to fight when I was younger. Really, I did not want to be the freak who had to face every day of people staring and making comments. I did not know that when I was myself things would be so much better inside of me that the shit I would have to face was not going to be as bad as I thought.

I don't know where it came from but I did learn to be a dominant alpha male I did not start off that way. I was not even close when I started. I was the one everyone picked on. I found some things I enjoyed, and I started learn about people and then I just started running with the men. The older guys pulled me out from the kids and brought me into their fold as a guy. I could command cops around and make old military guys talk to me like an equall. I was good at it. I could lead people and the power of my voice could inspire charges. It was easy because I was playing a role. It was like being an actor and faking the he'll out of it, but doing it well. It was what people wanted.

The problem becomes when you are successful in what you do there is always this realisation it is not you. I did some pretty cool shit, but it was not the stuff I wanted to do. I did not fear failing because I never wanted to make it that way anyway. That is really freeing when you do not give a shit about making it. Now I am scared. What if I suck at being a girl? I actually care about that. As any cisgendered girl knows that is a very hard image to be good at.

It is also hard because it seems it is something I want but the world doesn't want. Being a man was easy. It seemed at times the world just handed me that identity and wants me to be that. Despite how well I can do it, and how easy it is to fall back into it, it never feels like me.

Unfortunately Trump keeps dragging it out as a distraction from investigations, scandals, leaks and other dumb shit he's done. You should thank him, this is what you voted for.

Once we have a real President again we can go back to real issues and not ignorant attempts to please a minority of bigoted Christians and JK Rowling.

Nitpick: Phenotype is any measurable trait that is the result of genotype expression, whether that expression is dependent on environment or not. So includes internal stuff like hormone levels, etc not just what you can see on the surface.

Are we still talking about Trump? Well I guess if it wasn't him it would be any other Republican president with their own "hating points" to rally around.

I was talking about old fella and the definition of transgender and no, I voted for Gary Johnson.

Yes. And frankly, that is more than a nitpick; after soul/body and brain/body, this is the third failed attempt to find a dualistic concept to describe something that just plainly isn't dualism.

The President of the US is going to come up every now and then, sorry if he embarasses you so much. Maybe you'll remember that in 2020. But if he wasn't constantly trying to fuck over trans people, it wouldn't even come up. Maybe Republicans should just learn to live other people alone and we won't have to complain about "hating points", seems pretty easy to me. Just run on giving money to desperate billionaires or whatever stupid shit they run on. You know, don't start shit and no one will be able to call you on said shit.

I blame a lack of reading comprehension and poor memory for that. Fix that and no one will have to constantly repeat it.

I just don't get conservatives, they act like they want to be assholes but cry like babies when they're called assholes. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Jesus H. Christ BizarroEnt.......do you and Tererun drink from the same public fountain or what?
Because there's something in the water (drugs? hormones? none of the above?) that makes you both scream "EVIL STRAIGHT CONSERVATIVE WHITE MEN!"
in a similar manner/tone and with astonishing (if predictable) frequency. Asking for a friend.....

Well, trans people aren't fucking themselves over.
I mean, I'm sure there are hypocritical sellouts, but to really get the numbers for proper oppresion, you need the straight honkeys.
It's just math.

So Trump hasn’t repeatedly tried to ban trans people from the military despite the Pentagon and several studies showing they don’t affect military readiness in any way, his Sec of Education hasn’t announced that her office will dismiss any complaints from trans students regarding how they are treated by school administrations and his Sec of HUD didn’t refuse to denounce discrimination of trans people?

Is it all fake news?

Actually, it is just that you are triggered in the same way by anything that doesn't coddle your snowflake ego.

No one is required to actually post in the thread either. Seems hypocritical to involve yourself in a thread, then complain about it still going on.

snowflake ego? Great band name, but it doesn't have shit to do with me. I don't care who is trans/gay/whatever and don't care if they are in the military. I've often said I'd rather see idiots/assholes kicked out of the military. Some people on wordforge are so disappointed/bitter/depressed/foaming at the mouth angry 24/7 and blaming anything & everything on straight white conservative males that it borders on self parody.

If because YOU don’t have a problem, does that dismiss what Republicans in positions of power are doing? Are we supposed to just ignore actual policies put in place by Republicans because YOU, a random guy from Georgia isn’t a bigot? No one is complaining about YOU, it’s the people actually doing wrong and I don’t know why YOU are wanting to make it personal.

I'm not arguing - I'm just expressing my ideas and attitudes that may not mesh with your ideas and attitudes.

I wasn’t even trying to argue with you before. You sometimes seem fairly reasonable, so I tried to correct some things that you posted. If you said the sky was purple, I’d let you know it was blue too. I was sharing information, don’t take it as an attack.

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for in terms of describing the concept.

What I'm trying to describe is the very real, all consuming (for people like me) reality that what we see in the mirror (before and even during transition) and what the third party observer sees before transition is dramatically different from our gender identity.

Call that dualistic or dispute the terminology in any way you please but if my wording doesn't suit you then you tell me how it is properly described, just so i completely understand your objections.

Dualism is false, and in this case I think it is harmful in at least two specific ways:

One, because it is false, it leads to contradictions. This makes it a dangerous way to explain the concept of gender dysphoria or transgender identity to other people who have a hard time understanding it, or might even be reluctant to accept it. It's an unforced error -- transgender identities are real, but dualism isn't, and you end up with a description that is half false. Look at what happened upthread: @matthunter is, unless I am very much mistaken, an ally -- and yet your description forced him to either take exception or ignore something that is to him a glaring mistake. You find yourself with additional problems -- unforced errors.

Two, what dualism implies is a strong essentialism, as in 'this kind of body IS intrinsically male', or 'this kind of soul IS intrinsically female'. Your experiences are very real, but that is not the same as universal; they don't hold for all other people, and any metaphysics derived from them will be incompatible with other people's gender experiences. There are people who understand themselves as women, have what is generally recognised as a male body, and are just fine with looking into the mirror and seeing the body of the woman that they are. There are many others who have no problem with their body, but find that their minds, psyches, desires and emotions do not fit some idea we have of a male or female personality. Introducing dualistic and thus essentialistic terminology and concept here validates your experiences at the cost of invalidating that of other people.

I would say: You are a human who wants to change her body. That desire is part of what is happening in you, i.e. your body. That is not a contradiction; when you have a cold, the cold and the immune reaction and the conscious desire to be healthy again all happen in the same body as well. It is not a problematic idea.

there is certainly no universal trans experience (particularly when one is referencing transGENDER and not transSEXUAL) but I do not see or define what I'm describing as dualism. Rather it is, in my view, basically an intersex condition which happens to affect the brain rather than other organs. In the same sense that one can be born with ovaries and a penis, or a Y chromosome and a vagina, one can be born with conflicting sex traits between their brain and their genitalia.

That's not dualism.