Universal / National Health Care Insurance

Those insurers who, by their very business model, exist to take away choices.

Fun fact, I can be treated anytime in any NHS hospital anywhere in the UK.

If I dislike the service in one, I can go elsewhere. If I doubt the doctor I can get a second, third, fourth, fifth opinion.

Can the same be said for insurance led providers or are you limited to those contracted directly to the insurer?

We have to stay in network. There are many doctors to get second opinions from, but it's not like you can choose to go to the Mayo clinic without paying for most of it yourself.

Networks are very spotty out of state.

I spend a lot of time in the Florida keys. There are no in network facilities there. If my son or I had an accident, it would be very expensive to get treatment.

Case in point RyanKCR who opposes universal health care.

So less choice?

Couple years ago, I broke a tooth. My dentist was out of town. So I had to go to a different dentist who also needed to take X-rays. Because insurance says I already had X-rays within a certain time frame, they wouldn’t cover it. I still haven’t paid that bill. I refuse. The dentist can fight with the insurance company but I’m not.

Dental insurance is not health insurance. It could be. Same with vision.

It's insane that dental and vision is not part of normal medical insurance, but there are so many other issues with medical insurance.

I see you point.

Will chew it over.

Dental insurance sucks. I've never seen a dental plan that was worth a shit. I have my own theories about why that is, but that is the bottom line.

dental and vision are more paid marketing to get you to see a certain dentist or vision care store.

Are public roads and sewage infrastructure things that don't sit well with you?

Is it a bad thing that electrical power points are standardised, at the cost of individual choice?

Public fire fighting services?

Uncle Albert fights his own fires!

Pssst we call'm outlets

As administered, a qualified "yes." Every road would be a toll road in my society. Every school would charge tuition.

Less a problem that they are standardized, than that the individual's contribution to these services is not the same across the board. If I don't get more cops or firefighters showing up at my house when needed, I should not be expected to pay more for them than the guy across town. If I cannot contribute a minimum amount towards them such that my house fire is allowed to endanger my neighbors, I don't get to live in proximity to others.

Another problem is the effective practice of punishing people who find ways of not participating in some form of municipal infrastructure. You could have your own well and self-contained septic system, but the local water authority is still going to invent ways you must pay them. Likewise with solar/wind power and the power authority. You should be able to forgo all municipal connections and the associated costs if you so desire.

It seems to me that the personally responsible thing to do if you don't want to pay for municipal connections that benefit the vast majority of the community and make it a desirable place to live, would be to not move there, or to move out if the place goes in that direction.

Obviously. Until you are annexed, or eminent-domained.

And the idea of being unwillingly enveloped by an HOA makes me real stabby.

Unless and until somebody forces you stay, I don't see the problem. Living in a community means that you're going to have to somewhere along the line, give up some of your ability to do whatever the fuck you want.

The problem in this hypothetical scenario is that I would have invested blood, sweat and tears into something that is summarily ruined by yet another goddamned unaccountable bureaucracy. Maybe I chose what I thought was a remote location several decades ago.

If the other people have the same "Fuck everyone else" attitude that you do, you're screwed, but it won't bother me so...

Here is the problem. The dentist won't fight with the insurance company because they have lawyers and defense against carrying unresolved debt. Your doctor/dentist will simply send the bill to collections and they will put a pox on your credit. Do you want a good rental home, fuck you. Do you want to buy a house? Fuck you. Do you want a car? Fuck you. Do you want a new line of credit? Fuck you. Do you want a new and better job to pay your bills? Fuck you. All of these things run your credit. None of them care the insurance company fucked you over because you are now a thief because you have bad credit. Even your new business can be fucked by your personal bad credit unless you are well protected from your personal finances. I had trouble getting Business loans because a partner of mine had personal credit trouble even though our business was making money and carried no debt.

The banks would not loan my father money despite him and my mother having thirty years of never missing a credit card, car loan, mortgage, or utility payment, and carrying enough cash to cover the down payment, and 300k of equity in their present house because he refused to pay a bill on a colonoscopy the health insurance people approved and then denied afterwards, and my mother broke her ankle and refused to pay the whole thing because the insurance company denied it. They would have lost that money in the real estate crash had they waited for the insurance company to cave and fix their credit. In the end after over a year of arguing over bills they were contracted to pay, the insurance company caved without any penalties.

In america it does not matter if you are right and the insurance company will eventually lose and pay. They will ruin you because holding onto the money for a year or so is profitable when you do it to millions of customers making legitimate claims. You could be ruined in any number of things because you had to pay for this contract and did everything you were supposed to to get paid. There is no penalty for them violating your insurance contract even when they are obviously in the wrong.

The only good part will be when people like @Uncle Albert and OF get the screwing and all of their right wing allies just piss on them for getting ill and the insurance company fucking them. Because if they will fuck over someone like my father and my family, you have not got a fucking chance. My family has money for lawyers and to protect themselves. My family has money to drop some investments and buy a house or pay for my business while there are credit problems. My family could just take it to the chin and do what they wanted. Being white is not going to help you much anymore. Now you have to be white and have family money to cover you while you wait so you do not get put in the poor class. They won't even send you an apology for your wasted time when they know you have no choice but to have insurance in the long run.

Oh man, I really want to see the surprised look on your face when health insurance and the medical industry fucks you in the ass with a long ass camera and then ruins you because insurance won't pay for the colonoscopy they declared necessary.

You have to put that shit on tik tok when you come around with your ass still soar and the hospital hands you the bill because the insurance you pay for religiously denies it. Then can you record your reaction when the notice from collections comes and then you get denied on every credit application you make, and you get refused for a job because you have a mark on your credit and despite doing everything right you cannot even pull yourself up by your bootstraps any more.

On that day tell me where you are at and I will bring you some boot straps and stick them straight up your ass. I will piss on you like you piss on everyone else, and then I will call the cops on your pitiful ass and watch them drag you off to prison for being poor. It is coming, because they do it to everyone.

Are you against the public school system too?

I'd be interested in hearing those theories, because that's been my experience too. Every dental or vision plan I've ever had occasion to look at has covered so little that it's exactly the same as paying out of pocket.

My current dentist has a program where, for $400 a year, you get two free standard visits, plus discounts ranging from 10% to 50% on the more involved services, and that's as good as any dental insurance plan I've ever seen, plus you can buy into it whenever you want (including at time of service... good luck finding an insurance company that will allow that).

Uncle Albert is very much on record of being against anything that isn't himself.

I doubt if mine are better than yours. On the insurance company side, I suspect too many people don't think they need dental insurance until they have a mouthful of rotten teeth. Basically, I think it boils down to 1) the pool of customers being too unhealthy to be profitable if the coverage is too good. Of course, 2) there's also the reality that insurance companies are run by greedy bastards and bitches along with bean counters who lack the necessary equipment for heart attacks. 3) As far as I know there are no federal standards that impose minimum standards such as the ACA which requires covering procedures such as colonscopies and forbids them from disqualifying pre-existing conditions, so it's the wild west for those assholes.

That is about right for a dental plan. It does give you a discount if you are doing huge amounts of work, but I would not buy one.

Down here doctors have started charging a membership to their office that is over 1k. If you do not have a membership the doctor simply will not see you. With a membership you can make an appointment like a regular doctor and wait weeks to be seen. Talk about your rip offs, but it makes the rich people feel special that the poor people are not going to be at their doctor's office when they go.

It is branding. The rich do not want the same level of service as the poor. If they pay more for the service, then the service is better by default.

It does not actually forbid them from denying the claim on the colonoscopy, it just means they will eventually lose and have to pay for it. My dad was at high risk according to the doctors and bean counters at insurance. Both approved his colonoscopy. After the colonoscopy was performed the insurance denied the bill and the doctors went after my father because they want to get paid and it was his job to fight with insurance over their approved procedure. After over a year of debt collection insurance finally gave in and paid. There is no penalty for breaking contract or government regulations and trying to deny coverage. So they do it because you are on the hook for the damages failing to pay the bill has.

Just because health insurance is there does not remove you from the responsibility of paying covered costs. However, if the government was the ones covering the costs rather than the patient the doctors would get their money, the patient would not get their credit ruined, and any litigation regarding necessity would be done in legislation or the courts and made standard in the medical practice without ruining a patient for following the rules and advice of their doctors.

If you pussies don't want to pay high health care costs, don't get sick. Personal responsibility!

At my age it is more don't fix shit. If it doesn't fix itself with some time, then I have had enough time and arguing with this physical cage. I am not going to pay to fix this shitty uniperceptional receptor and translator of the signals this shitty world swamps you with. If i can't tune into the good fucking vibes of the occasional broadcast of light, sound, touch, taste, and smell then it is time for whatever comes next.

My quack did that a few years ago. But it was 3 grand to be in his program. I guess he did ok with that.