US backs coup in Venezuela

What on earth are you on about? How does any of that relate to Trump taking the opposite approach from Putin on Venezuela?

 

If Trump ignores Venezuela, there's no scary monster out there to inspire Venezuela to cuddle up to Putin. Add to that, if the US stops processing Venezuelan oil, there's a spike in oil prices, and the Venezuelans can't take advantage of it (but Putin can, in more ways than one). Which means, that the Venezuelans will be more dependent upon someone willing to give them aid (like Putin). It's not too terribly different than what the US has done in Latin America in the past, only this time, it's Putin running the show, and not us.

 

That's some fairly contorted logic. Completely unfalsifiable - it makes Trump a Russian stooge whatever way he turns.

 

It's cute that you think he did it on accident. Bolton did it deliberately (Didja notice that there was nothing else on that page?). He wants to drive up tensions in the region to encourage unrest, so as to give some form of justification for the US to move in.

 

Actually, it is easily falsifiable. All Trump has to do is say that while he thinks there were serious issues with the recent election in Venezuela, the US considers it to be an internal matter and that the US will continue to work with whatever government is in power. This sends a clear signal that the US thinks there's a problem with the political process in Venezuela, but is unlikely to intervene. A not uncommon practice, I might add. Remember when the first Bush Administration told Saddam that we would take "no position in a border dispute with Kuwait"? Do you think that the US said that because we wanted Hussein to invade Kuwait? Or do you think that Bush I was such a bumbling idiot that he couldn't draw the obvious conclusion from such comments? I should point out that according to former Secretary of State, James Bakker, while the US was publicly condemning the coup against Gorbachev, they were still holding back channel talks with those claiming power. Why? Because you always do such things so that no matter which way things turn out, you don't have to worry about shit really hitting the fan. It's the same reason why the official US policy of "We don't negotiate with terrorists" is bullshit. We do negotiate with terrorists, all the time. We just don't talk about it publicly for a variety of reasons.

Remember, that despite all the bitching and moaning about what's been going on in Venezuela, the US has been more than happy to allow the importation of Venezuelan oil, until now. What's changed? Could it be that the guy who's running the US and desperately wants to build a hotel in Moscow is doing things differently in hopes of currying favor with Putin? Does this tweet sound like it's been written by a mature adult?



Or does it sound like it's written by someone so desperate to be besties with someone that they'll do anything asked of them?

Honestly, Rick, while you might have a better knowledge of immoral US activities than someone like Dayton, you're no different than he is in your slavish devotion to certain causes despite whatever evidence is presented to you. I could go on, and talk about how your fetishization of Assange has blinded you to the fact that whatever good he might have done in the past, it's been erased by his helping to get Trump elected. But there's no point. You'll simply deny all the evidence presented to you in the same manner that Dayton denies all evidence that his particular world view has no connection to reality. And even if one accepts your flawed premise that Assange was "merely" trying to make sure everyone was aware of what was happening and that he'd have freely released stuff stolen from the GOP had it been given to him, are you going to try and claim that America and the world are better off because Trump is President instead of Hillary? Because if you are, I'd love to hear your rationalizations for that.

 

Get real. You know perfectly well that the narrative in that scenario would be that Trump is staying out of it to give Putin a free hand.
As it is, the US policy is entirely consistent with what they've been doing for two decades - trying to undermine the lefties in Venezuela and reverse the tide in Latin America more generally, alongside their new right-wing toadies in Brazil and elsewhere. Their ability to isolate and strangle Maduro's government particularly in terms of denying them access to their oil revenues is increasingly likely to get them what they want, and that will deprive their competitors (including Russia) of any foothold. The US policy does not "cripple the western powers" and isn't good news for Putin in the slightest.

There was a disputed election and the emergence of an opposition figure through whom Maduro could be challenged, remember?

It sounds like it's written by an idiot. I'm not sure what the "gotcha" here is in relation to Venezuela.

It's complete non-sequitor.
The charge of being Dayton-esque is highly amusing coming from someone who is pushing a McCarthyite conspiracy theory and who should know better.

 

Well it really doesn't matter if the US or any other country for that matter is telling Maduro to leave.

If he had any brains in his head he would have already let the other guy take over while he ran to another country to hide.

The country is in shambles. It's going to have a revolution/civil war soon. You can't have people starving for very long before they look at your fat ass, and Maduro is a fat ass, and decide it's time to have revolution.

Eventually the military will turn on Maduro. The generals are sitting high on the hog with Maduro but your average soldier is suffering and has families who are also suffering.

It really would be best for Maduro to leave. Maybe a deal should be setup where he leaves and is guaranteed that he won't be prosecuted and he can keep whatever money he's stolen. That might make it worthwhile for him to go.

 

He didn't "do it" at all. That's photoshopped horse shit, probably Russian or Chinese PSYOP stuff. Fake news, in other words.

 

It's not photoshop. It's real.

And Tuckerfan is right. Like him or hate him no one can accuse Bolton of being stupid and accidentally exposing a notepad with such information on it. That single note was done on purpose to send a message to Venezuela and Maduro.

 

"There is no B-3 bomber."

 

I think Bolton was trying to write down 5000 POOPS - AY CARUMBA! and got distracted.
BTW is sounds funny when Matthunter (with a genteel background in academia) use a term like OPSEC.
Sorry But I think of Major Charles Emerson Winchester III on M*A*S*H trying to blend in with a grunt.

 

I'm just amused at the US military need to create acronyms for shit that you could just call "security" and rely on common sense for folk to know what the fucking context is.

Oh, you're on the phone? Consider security issues. Or you could call it COMSEC, because we're eight year olds pretending we're cool.

 

Oh you don't know the half when it comes to army acronyms! But they evolve quickly! When my son was in from 2012-2016 there were a lot of new ones and some I used to use aren't used anymore.

https://www.acronymslist.com/cat/us-army-acronyms-(official).html

 

Someone hide this thread from Ancalagon before he sees it now that you all mentioned military acronyms.

The man loves military jargon.

 

Roger that! We better watch our six until he un-asses our AO.

 

"Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P."​

 

There's no overland route between South America and Panama, so stop getting so excited, sheesh

 

It's almost like the terrain forms some kind of...vertical impediment to the movement of people.

 

It's not just the military. I've had a whole lot of conversations at work revolving around LYBUNTs and SYBUNTs.

 

Um, no.
It's the jungle, not the mountains.

 

Either way, it's a barrier.

 

Save for the fact that a lot of Americans are panicking at the idea of Trump starting a war to distract folks from the investigations against him.

And yet, it's giving him a greater military presence in the country..

But we really weren't discussing military intervention after the Venezuelan military attempted a coup against Chavez.

So, you're telling me that you don't think Putin wants a larger presence on the world stage? That the man who invaded Georgia and Ukraine just wants to live his life quietly?

McCarthy made vague accusations and never offered any evidence in support of his claims. We've got a special prosecutor returning indictments and convictions showing that people with close ties to Russia illegally manipulated our election process. That's vastly different than what McCarthy did.