USMCForge: Go Ask ALICE...

OK.

So.

From Vietnam through about 2000 we had the ALICE pack. The pack was part of a modular system of gear. Canteen pouches, holsters, ammunition pouches, first aid kits...all worked together and could be clipped to nylon webbing.

Prior to 1998 or so, we had 782 gear, or "deuce" gear. This was actually part of the ALICE system--a pistol belt, suspenders, etc.

As we made advances in body armor and added new gear, they phased out the old "H-Harness" (which was actually "Y" shaped, the "H" shaped ones being outmoded maybe 10 years earlier) and added Load Bearing Vests. There were a couple more developments in personal gear, including a totally new and improved flak jacket at the turn of the century, but I'm rambling.

The point is, through all these changes, the Marines stuck with their trusty ALICE* packs--even though the issued pack really couldn't carry very much. If you really needed to hump a lot of gear, you'd go to a surplus store and buy yourself the large ALICE pack, which would hold more than you'd want to carry. Still. Backpacking technology had far outstripped this pack (which was from the late 1960s) and the Powers that Be decided it was time for a new pack.

So we dumped ALICE for MOLLE. MOLLE is "modular" something-something "load equipment" or something like that. This bears mentioning because compared to simple, easy-going ALICE, MOLLE was...complex. And high maintenance. The concept was that the pack was modular and you could add and remove pouches and straps to tailor your pack to your mission. I swear to God, the pack was so complex that it came with a videotape that told you how to use it.

Well, Jarheads being simple folk, who can't be bothered to read (or even watch a video) didn't like MOLLE very much. They'd lose parts of her, or forget how she went together. And she broke fairly easily. Or so I'm told. U used a MOLLE pack for the Iraq war and it seemed pretty easy to use and straightforward and sturdy to me.

But MOLLE was kind of a "rebound" pack. And now we have a new pack. I don't know if the new pack has a cute girl's name acronym or not, but it is similar to the pack the Marines used at Mountain Warfare Training Center in Bridgeport California, which was a good piece of gear. Simple. Rugged. Fairly adaptable. And able to hold all the crap you need to kill people halfway up a frozen mountain.

Similar, I say. Because it is not the same. They seem to have made some of the same "mistakes" they made with MOLLE. (And this time no video. ) There's a hellacious number of straps and buckles on it. Some of them have little elastic things for the excess webbing, some don't. There's some kind of "radio pouch" buckled on the inside. It really isn't big enough for anything (OK, maybe a radio) and it isn't enclosed enough to use as a seperate bag. Then there's a day pack that buckles onto the outside of the main pack, like the Space Shuttle Enterprise, riding on the back of a 747. But I'm a pretty bright guy and I'm still not entirely sure I got it on there right. And there's a lot more loose straps and such, hanging out, than I'm really comfortable with.

Also, I'm not very happy that they've completely phased out the pistol belt. I'm used to my pistol, two canteens, an ass-pack that holds a poncho and/or Gore-Tex and an MRE, and a first aid kit all going on my belt, Batman-like. Yeah, for the war I wound up just clipping 99% of my gear to my flak jacket. But sometimes you don't want to wear that thing. And when that happens, it was nice to have a pistol belt to hold your sidearm and the essentials to keep you alive for a day or so.

Eh. I guess I'll live. Tune in tomorrow, when I bitch about the newest generation of Gore-Tex parka. (I like it better than the first-generation ones, but not as much as the ones before it.)









*No, I don't remember what "ALICE" stood for. And I don't know what the "782" in "782 gear" is about either.

All
Purpose
Lightweight
Individual
Carrying
Equipment


I had to look it up.

Mine was always strapped to the bustle rack more than it was strapped to my back. I think I used my duffel bags more than my ALICE pack (though I'd like to buy one for camping).

I'd never heard of that. Figures, since it's strictly a Marine thing:

From answers.com:

It would have to.

I once had a squadron commander who, in the interest of "uniformity", ordered that everybody had to wear the same uniform--tankers and scouts.

What the fool didn't realize (or apparently care about) was that, unlike the scouts in their 113s and ITVs (and the mortar maggots in their tracks), we couldn't wear our LBE in the tanks because it snagged on things and otherwise got in the way (unsafe as hell). As a result, we generally had to keep our LBE stored in the squirrel cage in the bustle (not much room there, but it was clean and dry) or in the exterior bustle rack where the harnesses--including the pistol belt with a .45 on it--were exposed to the elements. Plus, every time we had to dismount the vehicle, we had to "get dressed" in our LBE so we'd be "in uniform".

What the fucker (his last name--no shit--was Granade) had against shoulder holsters I'll never know. Fuckin' scout.

Yup. That's the pack. That's exactly the pack they used to have at Bridgeport. But, in their wisdom, The Powers That Be decided to fuck with the design. Now there's a school book-bag sized day pack that snaps onto the back of the pack. So you've got to figure out what buckles and snaps go where and where to tuck the straps that aren't being used, depending on the configuration.

The main pack is a good pack. And the day pack is good as well. But it was retarded to decide they had to be able to clip them together into one huge Voltron-style pack.

Thanks for the traumatizing flasbacks! I was always that "slow guy" who could never figure out how to put all this gear together!

And "showing me" in a quick demonstration didn't help. My short term memory wouldn't allow me to replicate what I just saw.

The LBE wasn't bad if you could get away with customizing how you set it up, and I still use the ALICE pack and frame I had when camping. Luckily both of the PSGs I had didn't give a shit what we looked like so long as we were in the field and doing out jobs. I had the LBE I wore around garrison for inspections and the like and the one I wore in the field.

Exactly. Once I got something set up for the "Dog and Pony" I stored it away. I had other gear I actually used. If you use the gear you're supposed to, it will never look good enough.

That and 90 percent of the stuff we were issued we didn't need for my MOS anyway.

When I went to BNCOC (leadership school) I wondered why most people drove their cars instead of flying there. Then I found out.....you keep your display uniforms and gear in your locker, and live out of your trunk!

There's no way you can actually wear and wash your uniforms then prepare them for exact locker displays and still have time to study.

I bought a civilian ruck frame, painted it black and threw my ruck on there. I kept the issue frame and bought a second ruck just for inspections. It was bad enough that I fucked up my knees, no way was I going to fuck up my back too and I didn't give a shit what the Army thought about it.

I think a lot of people don't realize the entire militay is one, big surreal game. Once you figure out the rules, it's a lot of fun to play "Can I get away with this?" and to win.

I knew guys that went to six month schools and lived in their cars and ate nothing but PB&J just to pocket the TDY money.

And the game will drive you crazy if you ever try to make sense of it.
One example is using a miltary vehicle. You can't go through the Burger King drive thru in a gov. vehicle, even if it's on the way to work. You will get an Article -15 (punishment) and get a huge fine.

But during lunch you can drive 5 miles, park the car next to the BK, walk in and eat then drive back to work every day and nobody says a thing.

You could bring BK food to the Colonel that gave an Article-15 to your buddy for going through the drive-thru and this would seem normal.

For the war, I didn't even bring the vest with me because there are straps all over the flak vest, so I just hung everything on my vest. This worked fine--until we went back to Kuwait and eventually didn't have to wear armor any more.

Happily I'd brought along a pistol belt and H-Harness of my own, so I threw them on.

except for when you gain weight and have to reset all the sizes in a matter of 3 weeks

One thing that sucks about the MOLLE that no one has mentioned is that with the plastic frame, you can't jump with it. Gotta use an ALICE for that.

I just received my first piece of MOLLE kit today and it's pretty damn cool.

I ordered one of these


from the good folks at Spec-Ops Brand in Monahans, Texas (mine's black, though). I've ordered some other stuff from them in the past, but this is the first MOLLE-type item I've bought.

My first impressions are that it's far superior to ALICE. The straps make for a much more secure attachment than the clips ever did.

The way this Modular Combat Bandoleer works is that you order the "base" and then buy the pouches you need separately. Very "customizable". I ordered pouches like what's shown in the photo (an Op-Order Logistics pouch flanked by two X-6 Utility pouches), but the website also shows the bandoleer set up like a magazine chest rig.

I bought it to use for work to haul tapes, batteries, microphones, etc. There are similar "civilian" rigs, but they don't do what this will do. In addition to the pouches, the bandoleer "base" has a large zippered pocket to hold more stuff.

I went to Avionics school - very few women in there. So, I was able to secure two lockers and two bunks. Made life so much easier.

So, you know about 186 and 164 radios and such? We use them a lot in out ATC shelters/towers.