What an amazing year ! new tax law primes US for growth

Yep. The effect was middle of the pack and now it will much lower. The problem, of course, is this is a massive debt bomb waiting to go off and Paul Ryan has already said he wants to slash social security, gut medicare, end medicaid, and kill CHIP. All in the name of balancing the budget after slashing government income.

This truly is robbing from the poor and middle class in order to corruptly give kick backs to their corporate lobbyist masters.

First off any tax change is going to benefit the billionaires and corporations. Even a 1% deduction would benefit them. So because it will benefit them as well as us we should just say fuck it and not do anything? How very progressive of you Lanzman. Don't fall for that typical propagandist bullshit from people like CommunistDeckard.

Second, there are tax decreases to us the little guys. Watch your paychecks over the next few months. Yes it's not like we are going to be paying zero but we are getting a cut. Does it expire? Yeah. But that can be fixed in a later Congress. The Bush tax cuts expired on Jan 1, 2013 but on Jan 2, 2013 Obama signed the new tax act of 2012 which reinstated the tax cuts retroactively to Jan 1, 2013. So while they do expire the odds of any politician letting them go up particularly in an election year is slim.

Third, while I'm thinking the Democrats are in a good position to take the House and even the Senate the fact is that they ALL voted against this. Not a single Democrat voted for it. If the economy starts booming more than it currently is they are going to have a very hard time in 2018 mid-term elections.

Fourth, there is no way this is rolled back. Trump will simply veto it. You'd have to win in 2020 to get a POTUS who would sign it. And all during the 2020 campaign the Republican (if Trump or someone else) would be hammering the Democrats on their desire to raise taxes and wreck the economy. It would literally be a Walter Mondale moment again for Democrats. "Let's tell the truth. Mr. Reagan will raise taxes, and so will I. He won't tell you. I just did."

Fifth, the best part about this tax plan? It reduces the state income tax exemption which means the rich will have to pay more. So all those rich people living in states like New York and California will now have to pay more in taxes instead of being allowed to deduct their state income taxes from their Federal taxes. Now those rich people will have to actually live with the insanity of the state tax rates in those states. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article189600289.html How can you not want rich people to pay more tax? This is why the Democrats are so against the tax bill. Don't let them fool you. This scares the crap out of them because now the rich in those Democrat high income-tax states are going to be looking to change things at the state level or to leave the state.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/meet-victims-trump-tax-bill-180523129.html

A lot of the middle class is going to wake up and find out they got fucked.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



From Dinner's link:
"But 5% of taxpayers will end up paying more, largely because of lost deductions that will raise taxable income."

Keith Parsons’ own tax bill will go up under the GOP plan, as it will for many of his clients. Parsons, 61, who’s married with two kids in college, claimed about $30,000 in itemized deductions in 2016. Under the GOP rule changes, his state and local tax deduction will now be capped at $10,000, and he’ll lose the personal exemption for all four family members, or $16,200 worth of deductions.

He’ll still fall into the same tax bracket, and his overall tax would increase by $1,035, he estimates.



The guy who can rack up $30,000 in deductions will have to pay $1,035 more. You're doing pretty damn good if you can rack up $30,000 in deductions. Fuck him. Isn't that what you leftists would say if this was an Obama tax plan?



Susan, who asked us not to use her last name, ran the numbers and estimates her tax bill will rise by a modest $200 or so under the GOP plan. “Trump is calling this a giant tax cut for the middle class, a Christmas present for the middle class,” Susan says. “I don’t see that. It’s certainly not a tax break for me.”

Susan, who’s 57 and divorced with two adult kids, bought a house this year and counted on being able to deduct interest on her mortgage to lower her tax bill. That won’t change. But like many others, Susan will now see a diminished benefit from itemizing because of the new cap on state and local deductions.



OMG!!! $200 more in taxes!!

Once again this is due to the tax plan reducing the ability of people to deduct from their Federal taxes the state taxes they pay.

Also notice how the article bullshits here. The article tries to imply that the mortgage interest deduction is at fault but than it says nope. It's the cap on state and local deductions of the state income tax she pays. The article is hoping one glosses over that part.



The retired purchasing manager in New Jersey. Donald Barnett of Fair Lawn, NJ, expects his tax bill to rise by about $3,400 under the new law. The retired purchasing manager, who’s 76, will lose two personal exemptions, for his wife and himself, and thousands more in state and local taxes he’ll no longer be able to deduct.



Once again this is due to the tax plan reducing the ability of people to deduct from their Federal taxes the state taxes they pay.



The Pennsylvania surgeon. Brian, who also asked that we don’t use his last name, talked with his accountant about how the new rules will affect him. “I’ll end up paying more in taxes because my taxable income will go up considerably,” the 51-year-old surgeon says.
“I voted for Trump,” Brian says. “Clearly this law benefits him and all his friends in corporate America. But I’ll end up paying more in taxes. This has not left a pleasant taste in my mouth.”



Heavens no! A rich person has to pay more. He's a surgeon. He's swimming in money.

And he voted for Trump!

Let me pretend to be a leftist for a moment.

Hey Trump voting rich surgeon!



The aircraft engineer in Louisville. Jacob Zettwoch manages his taxes carefully every year, making sure to claim enough deductions, including charitable ones, to remain in the 15% tax bracket. But the loss of personal exemptions for 4—himself, his wife and two school-age kids—plus the new cap on state and local deductions will raise his taxable income and bump him into the next bracket, which will be 22% under the new law.


Okay this guy I might feel bad for but he's obviously making enough to be in that 22% bracket and is only in the 15% bracket because he's aggressive with the deductions. Nothing wrong with that but things change. You can't always stay in the same tax bracket no matter what you do. Same thing happened to me when the kids were no longer in super expensive pre-school. Oh man that tax year after the youngest went to elementary school was not a happy one.

Oh and the brackets are still progressive. He's not paying 22% on everything. Only the part that passes the lower brackets.

And again Kentucky the state where this guy lives charges a state income tax and the deduction at the Federal level for that is capped at $10,000.

So basically this article is a whole bunch of whining.

A great comment from the article Dinner linked here:

"The backlash over this tax bill in states like California, New York, and New Jersey just might be enough to turn those states blue next election "

Oh and Democrats should be glad this plan was passed.

If it's as bad as they say it is than it will be easy for them to defeat it in 2018 and than 2020.

But notice how they are hollering now? Because unlike dumb people like Dinner even the Democrat bozos in DC realize that their 2018 and 2020 goals just got way more difficult with this plan being passed.

And what percentage of their tax windfall does this publicity stunt equal?

Who cares?

If these companies actually carry this out isn't that a good thing?

"Fifth Third Bancorp, a bank headquartered in Ohio, announced that they would raise the minimum hourly wage for all employees to $15 following the tax reform bill and would give a one-time bonus of $1,000 to more than 13,500 of its employees."

Sounds like a good thing for the employees. Everyone is getting a bump. Generally when you raise the minimum for your least paid that reverberates all the way up the line. Everyone gets at least something.

"Wells Fargo announced that they will increase their minimum hourly pay rate to $15, and will "aim for $400M in philanthropic donations next year due to the newly-passed GOP tax bill.""

Sounds good for employees again......

"CVS Health announced in October that if the corporate tax rate went down,it would create 3,000 permanent new jobs."

Again sounds good for employees......

Stop being a bitch.

If these companies follow through on this that's a good thing for people who work for them.

It's a ploy: Dedicate a small percentage of their gains to things that will make good anecdotal headlines, in the hopes of distracting people from, y'know, actual data.

"We should give billions to the ultra-rich because maybe some of them will give a fraction of it back!"

Nearly half the responders to that comment didn't get the joke.

85% of the benefits accrue to the top 1%.
This is not a case of them incidentally benefiting from cuts for everyone. This is targeted at them.

Actually about 50% will pay more once you count state level taxes because of the lose of that deduction but don't let facts get in your way.

A whole lot of it will also be in states like Florida and Texas where property taxes are high.

But not as low as it is now. And one major means of reducing the effective rate was investment, which is what we're looking for.

That's seriously insane. Any change will benefit the billionaires and corporations? Then let's change it back again, and they'll profit again! Hell, if we can change it to and fro once a week, we will generate endless revenue! If we manage to change it fast enough, they will become richer than the physical laws of the universe allow!

Living in Florida.

Property taxes are not high.

Owner of two properties in two different counties.

Do you really think the politicians are going to raise taxes on the rich and not give them shit loads of deductions and things with which they can lower their taxes? Stuff that only the rich can access due to their wealth?

You're fucking stupid if you think any tax raise in America by any Democrat or Republican ever actually "soaked" the rich.

Look back at the fantasy of the 90% tax rate in America. Yeah it existed, but there was so many loopholes, deductions, and tax shelters that you had to be a fucking idiot to pay 90% except on the tiniest amount of income. Rich people laughed at the 90%. Rich people and their friends in Congress are the ones who wrote the tax laws. Idiot.

If you really want to soak the rich from taxes than the progressive tax system and all it's deductions, loopholes, and other stuff has to go into the trash. You need either a national sales tax with no exceptions on anything (goods or services) and $5,000 or more in a calendar year in overseas purchases must be reported and paid tax on OR you need a straight up flat tax on income with no deductions of any kind and income has to be redefined so as to prevent people from having no income in year through financial maneuvering. No more one dollar salaries for rich CEO's.

Like our own new right wing populist government, Trump didn't waste much time to fuck over the lower classes that brought him to power. Just don't forget to scream about 'em durrrrty furrrriners from the top of your lungs or they just might notice.

Oh yes.

Always any tax change by any Republican never benefits anyone but the rich.

The Republicans want to kill old people, young people, middle aged people, middle class people, poor people, brown people, animals, environment, space, universe, multiverse, electrons, protons, quarks.

You name it the Republicans want to fuck it over and kill it!

Do you people on the left actually fucking think about how stupid you sound constantly saying dumb shit like this year after year, decade after decade?

I don't know. Do you people on the Right actually fucking think about how stupid, fantasy-world-driven your economic policies are that you push year after year, decade after decade?

See, that's your mistake. I don't want to soak the rich. In any sane country, I am the rich! But I don't even want to soak the super-rich produced by our insane economy that earn literally a thousand times more than me, even though I am already quite comfortable. That's all completely fine.

But you don't have to soak the poor to benefit the rich. The current scheme doesn't actually profit individual rich people all that much, financially. Will they make more millions? Yes. Will that noticeably change their lifestyle? Not really. What it will change is the lives of the poor from whom you're taking that money. It will make them more desperate, more angry, less reasonable, less educated, less informed, and for the current US especially, a lot less healthy. All of which will make them even easier prey for the same populists that thrive on that desperation and ignorance even now. This isn't about giving the rich more money. It is about consolidating their power by weakening the poor.

That's a biased question, because you're apparently only calling 'shopping' any decision that already includes leaving the US. Obviously, you will only find countries on that list that somehow differ from the US. You could as easily prove that US companies shop for non-English speaking countries, and for countries outside the North American continent.

All of this to hide that you want to say lower taxes bring more jobs, but you avoid saying that, because you know that lower taxes don't bring more jobs. Hint: Any prevarication that avoids saying lower taxes have benefits won't help you defend a bill that lowers taxes.

I guess it depends on what the big companies do with their windfall.

The trick with cutting the individual taxes, and then raising them in 2026 is pretty cute. They probably figure the Dems will be in charge by then and they could blame it on them. The Dems will, of course say it was the Republicans that made it that way, but they they'll come back with FAKE NEWS!!!

I also like how they made it so fewer people will be able to afford to get post-grad degrees, thereby reducing the number of future highly educated voters.

But in the meantime, I admit I'll be enjoying my temporary middle class tax cut.

I know I'm a deluded, naive Commie pinko liberal who wants the government to run my life from cradle to grave, but I would give up a tax cut if it meant using that money for social services. And I'm lower middle class as fuck. Oh well.

Oh, I agree. I'm probably upper middle class, have no kids, and just paid my house off. I certainly don't need the tax cut. I think that money could be better spent on social services...but that doesn't mean I'm going to go crying to the bank.

I'll probably feel differently when the Repubs go after Social Security and Medicare to pay for the tax cuts.

https://www.salon.com/2017/11/17/ceos-admit-they-wont-create-jobs-with-their-tax-cut-money/

A very reasonable estimate of what will happen is that about 80% of any tax cut windfall will end up being spent on stock buy backs. Most execs get stock options so doing this spikes their pay and it makes big investors happy. It does not increase productivity or employment.

The other 20%? It will mostly go to dividends (for the same large shareholders) and increased executive pay. That is what happened with the 2004 corporate tax cut and that is what most CEOs are saying they will do with this one. BTW about 80% of shares are owned by the top 1% and only 14% of Americans own any shares at all.

I just heard a lot of big companies are planing on investing the money one way or another.