What constitutes commitment?

Thread inspired by a conversation with daughter, she was talking about one of her friends...
'He's been with his girlfriend for six years, they've got a mortgage AND a dog, and he won't get married because he says he's not ready for commitment. I told him, you're already committed!'

I tend to agree, but what does WF think? Is there a male/female divide in what is seen as commitment? Discuss...

They're not married and they have a mortgage together? No wonder he doesn't know what commitment is... He's an idiot.

Commitment is a decision. If he's got a mortgage without making that decision, then while he isn't committed, he is in trouble.

If he were truly afraid of commitment he wouldn't have a mortgage with her, nor would he have her live with him. Once she moves in you, you're committed whether you like it or not.

Yeah, that's a guy who doesn't know what commitment actually means. That, or he's never entirely convinced himself he really loves her, which means he's a twat for getting a mortgage with her in the first place and is basically going through the motions of the relationship without ever having analysed whether the relationship is a sturdy one. A lot of people, worryingly, just settle. There's a girl where I work who's clearly not greatly enamoured of her boyfriend (they get on OK but not great) but has been with him for 9 years largely because she thinks she can't do any better. He's finally proposed, primarily it seems because he feels now is the time the relationship should move on to marriage.

Sounds like your brother has commitment problems too.

If you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, why not get married to them? Isn't that what marriage is all about?

Whatever people say, marriage DOES change how you behave with someone because ince you're in it its that much harder to get out, therefore you feel obliged to put more effort in.

Agree.....that whole wedding business is one big racket IMO.
Funerals are another racket too.

Spend more money to prove your love.......screw that.

I'm one of those that doesn't want to get married, but I would spend the rest of my life with someone that I loved.

I think marriage is a failed institution of the government and church.

But if I'm in love with the girl and she wants the piece of paper, then I will do the whole marriage thing.

I'm not afraid of commitment, I just don't like the idea of marriage.

You've gotta look at what a wedding represents. The relationship is no longer just a general partnership, but is fully incorporated in front of every witness they know. At some level, this guy recognizes and doesn't want that burden upsetting the delicately balanced apple cart.

Status quo means he's not subject to the advice and admonishments of her relatives or friends from school.

True, but if you're going to enter into a mortgage with someone you better have some protection that stands in for marriage.

Now with that, I'd argue. I've known blokes who were desperate to know that 'their' woman was committed only to them, and women who were equally determined not to 'belong' to any man - hell, one of my nieces has been with her partner for 12 years, they have three kids, and she's the one that refuses to tie the knot.
I don't see what difference it makes, but what the hell do I know, I've only been married 25 years...

And you'd better get it drawn up by a solicitor. Best friend's sis bought a house with her boyfriend, they split up, he left the country leaving her to shoulder the entire mortgage. Wound up bankrupting her...

Ding ding ding! This pretty much sums it up. Acting married and being married are two very different things, especially in the psyche of a man.

There are definitely women I might be willing to make the commitment of a joint mortgage with that I wouldn't want to make the commitment of a marriage to.

Assuming a woman has a certain amount of financial worth and sanity, a mortgage is a relatively safe commitment. It's going to last at most 30 years, and getting out of it by selling the property is fairly straightforward.

Marriage is far more complicated. All sorts of variables can enter in, people can prove themselves to be cheaters or otherwise problematic, and if it goes wrong, it's pretty darn painful.

I'd think the protection of having your partner care about his/her credit rating would be enough in most cases.

He isn't committed in his mind. The six years, the mortgage, and the dog may look like commitment, but he's keeping an escape route open. That relationship won't go the distance: he's a man who wants to keep his options open. He'll exercise his 'out' as soon as he's ready for something new...

Women who are committed swallow.


It's important!

Ah yes, what a catch. "Honey, I don't want you to be allowed on my insurance policy or have next-of-kin if I end up in a coma because I'm too busy sticking it to the man."

Like it or not, that's what you'd be saying. Relationships, to me, aren't really the time to be playing Rebellious Teenager or Social Libertarian, but maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

It's not my way of sticking it to the man. I've been through two divorces now.

First my parents. Now my Dad and his (soon-to-be)ex-wifes.

I've seen what it does first hand to both parties, both times. Someone ends up with a huge loss of money, being hurt, people do shitty things, everyone wants the better of everything.

For example, my Dad had only been married to this lady for a year. So everything that was his before hand, is his still(according to Texas law). And all he is asking for is what he had into the marriage and anything he bought himself while married.

He spent $25k on their house. He wants half of that back. That's it. And anything else he bought.

When we were there trying to get our stuff, she became a fucking cunt. She took the best TV in the house and dropped it off at a friend's. She called the cops because he wanted to take his grill.

It was my father, myself, and a friend of mine that came. She had her daughter, her daughter's boyfriend, a friend, the friend's husband, another friend, and one other friend there.

We were just there to get our shit, not hers.

But now she's decided that she wants support from my dad. Why? Because I make more money than she does and she doesn't make shit, and she even owns her own business. Why does she deserve anything? There were no kids. No joint adventures(my dad paid for EVERYTHING). So, why does she think she can get support?

By the way, this would have been her sixth marriage. So, according to Texas Law, it's either your 6th or 7th divorce and that's it. You can't get married again.

This is the problem with divorce, people view it as just a "breakup." That's bull shit. If you don't think you can last in a marriage, then don't get married. But a lot of people, when they think about divorce, they think about getting money from the other party. But that never happens in a breakup. You get your shit back and that's that.

At today's standards, if I were to marry, I have a 48% chance of having a great marriage. The other 52% is the chance of divorce I have. Those don't look like good odds, to me at least.

The way I see marriage is that it takes your commitment a little bit farther, that's it. It gives you a piece of paper that says, "Hey, these guys are truly together." I don't need that. If I'm committed to a girl, I am committed- no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Also, it gives tax breaks-and if for some reason it doesn't work out, it gives whatever party, a chance to be greedy.

'cause she's stupid?

There is no such thing as alimony in Texas, AFAIK.

People who get married with the backup plan of getting divorced if something goes wrong are destined to fail.

Marriage isn't supposed to be a 5, 10, 25, 50 year stand. Its supposed to last till the day you die, and too many people are refusing to work 'through' a marriage, and instead just get a divorce.

And there are nasty. I know from experience as well. Hell, I've seen kids drive themselves into depression and even further because of their parents divorce.

Marriage huh.
Technically if they've lived together for six years then they are already married via commonlaw, at least that's the way the laws work in many states here.
I've been married for fifteen years after being together another six and intend to be buried by my wife. I consider myself lucky to have a woman to put up with my ass through thick and thin and thank <entity of your choice here> for her. Marriage is the very least I can do for that commitment, it's a contract kept in blood, sweat, and hard work, understanding and flexability.

Frankly the concept of my kids being called bastards would bother me, but I guess it matters not to some.

Marriage is a commitment for life made by two people to each other to do what it takes to make a life together. The act of walking down the aisle or standing in front of the JP mearly cements it in stone. If one isn't ready to commit for life then perhaps not only is the commitment lacking substance but as was suggested by Paladin they want to keep a door open.
On an extreme level cowardice comes to mind, afraid to make that commitment thinking they can just walk out the door one day as if it were just another trip to the store for a six pack, but that isn't particularly suggested or intended in this case. YMMV.

Free milk without buying the cow is all fine and dandy if that's your gig folks but I tend to have a bit more respect for the traditional perks of being married.
I like the fact that I can say, "this is my wife" instead of "my signifigant other", or "baby mama" or any other myrid of other classifications.

But that's just me and my take on it.

They may be happy, and really in the end it can be argued that's all that matters the rest can be considered window dressing. However if she really wants to get married and he absolutely refuses, it may well be doomed to failure already.
Many women wish for that beautiful wedding day and frankly I think it's shortchanging them right out of the gate for some selfish idea if the guy isn't willing to provide that bit of happiness.

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With all due respect KamelReds, and neg me if you like but anyone who marries someone who has been married more than once before much less five times is a fool and deserves whatever comes their way.

I never understood why people insist on pissing on the sanctity of marriage in such a way, it's like getting repeated abortions as a form of birth control to me.

Yep, I have to agree.

People who've been married 4-5 times are idiots.

Or perhaps the escape route is exactly what he needs in order to carry on. Some people keep telling themselves they can leave any day, and that allows them to stay... at least as long as the relationship doesn't run into any other larger problems.

Btw, we're just looking at this from his perspective here. How does the girl describe her decision to have a mortgage with the guy who won't commit?

Not in the UK, although it's surprising how many people still think that holds true...