Why Americans Have No Faith in The Vote

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Immigration Bill Clears Senate Test Vote[/FONT]

Jun 26, 4:34 PM (ET)
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate voted Tuesday to jump-start a stalled immigration measure to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants. President Bush said the bill offered a "historic opportunity for Congress to act," and appeared optimistic about its passage by week's end.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20070626/D8Q0NH5G0.html

Why the hell are they pushing this bill so hard? The American people don't want it!

There is something going on behind the scenes that is not being said that is causing them to push this amnesty bill through.

And becase they are not lsitening to the American people, this is why there is such apathy in the vote. The vote just doesn't matter when they are not lsitening to the American people.

I agree with you on both counts.

It could be that they simply believe it is the best thing for the country.

You know, people rant and rave about politicians never standing for anything. Not having any core beliefs.

But has it occurred to people that if your elected officials have core values, beliefs and convictions, that they will in fact vote for things and support legislation that YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH?

Whether it is President Bush insisting on staying in Iraq despite opinion polls and congressional losses.

Or Congress pushing immigration reform that no one likes.

You wanted elected officials who would stand for something.

You've got it

It's the job of our officials who represent us to do the bidding of the American people.

No it is not.

Our elected officials are supposed to "represent the interests" of the American people.

Not directly translate todays whims of the public into action.

If our officials did the "bidding of the American people" the U.S. would probably have declared war on every nation in the Muslim world the day after the Oklahoma City Bombing when Americans gut reactions was that some "Middle Easterners" must have done this.

Excellent posts by Dayton.

justlee - Do you think that they should put into place a system of universal healthcare, seeing as that is also the bidding of the people?

So why then should the Americans vote if the Administration does not do the will of the American people? That means the system is worthless. It's call for the people, by the people.

It's not about doing what's right. It's about the dollar. Follow the dollar trail and you'll see that your high-faluting doing the right thing and standing for something is just so much bullshit.

How does this do that?

I don't think it does. And they should be held to account for it at election time.

But that doesn't mean a large number of our congressman and president don't honestly believe that a change is in the best interests of America and that this change is the best they can get.

But don't think for a moment that any elected official should be held hostage to the "opinions of the moment" of the electorate.

I don't beleive that we should be governed by opinion polls or by our passions without time to debate and study an issue, but when the people as a whole have said overwhelmingly we want the border closed and illegal immigrants kicked out of the country, and we're ignored in favor of business concerns, then it's time for new leadership.

Write to them and tell them outright that you'll remember this vote the next time they're up for reelection and that you won't be voting for them then. Vote for someone willing to repeal this law instead.

How much time should the American people have to study an issue?

How do you know that "people as a whole have said overwhelmingly".

Chances are, you are looking at polling data.

Now,for the record,I think this legislation is a terrible idea, and I believe most American people do.

But I can't prove it outside of polling data.

And we know how polls are.

For example:

I bet I could ask the same group of Americans two separate questions involving the U.S. in Iraq and change just one word and get at least a 40 point change in the results.

Not just the polling data, but look at political blogs, letters to the editors, letters to politicans, any number of ways people get their voices heard. I know someone who works in Sen. Byrd's office and the letters, emails, and phone calls he's received have made it abundently clear West Virginians are opposed to this bill by something like 9 to 1. My friend has asked other senator's offices unofficially and the numbers, even in states dealing with immigration on a daily basis like California and Arizona have been overwhelmingly in favor of kicking illegals out wholesale.

Star Trek's Ron Moore once said the following

slightly paraphrased

"we don't pay much attention to negative feedback. Mail tends to be more heavily negative because it takes an angry person to sit down and write out a letter. The people with positive views are much less liikely to bother".

I don't care for Ron Moore because of his obsession with the Klingons (he once wanted a new Trek series to be an "all Klingon soap opera") and for his bastardizatin of Battlestar:Galactica.

I thought the original series with a few tweeks to modernize it would've been just fine.

But that said, he had a point. And it accounts for things like why so much negative feedback regarding Voyager was largely ignored over the years.

I usually have little faith in the vote because of this:


Candidate One: "I think we should go to war for the security of our nation!"
Candidate Two: "I don't not think we should go to war!"
Candidate Three: "I agree in a similar fashion with the other two candidates!"
Candidate Four: "Tactical nukes and war good for the nation!"
Candidate Five: "I like Tactical nukes, but am against not going to war. Ronald Reagan."
Candidate Six: "Tactical weapons, mainly nukes, are great! But using them on our enemies is acceptable."
Candidate Seven: "I disagree with all of these gentlemen. I like tactical nukes and going to war!"
Candidate Eight: "Forgive the error of my present company, but I think it's important we go to war and use tactical nukes."
Candidate Nine: "Hey, I'm an actor and I like tactical nukes and cuban cigars."

CNN Reporter: It seems to me as if the Republicans are fighting each other, with the varied platforms, it's difficult to say who will win the nomination. However, a CNN poll says that Candidate Five has received the highest vote for his creative stances on political issues."

And now, the DNC:

(D) Candidate One: "Bush's fault. I'm against the war for now."
(D) Candidate Two: "I say it's Bush's fault."
(D) Candidate Three: "No, it's Bush's fault."
(D) Candidate Four: "I disagree. It's Bush's fault."
(D) Candidate Five: "Bush's fault."
(D) Candidate Six: " ... " /throws rock in drinking fountain and walks away
(D) Candidate Seven: "Bush's fault, but also the fault of evil corporations."
(D) Candidate Eight: "It's the audacity of being Bush's fault."


The only reason I haven't totally lost faith, is because of this guy:

(R) Ron Paul: "You people are full of shit. Nothing will ever get done with any you in the White House. We'll continue to burn in a downward spiral. Jesus Christ, can you all hear yourselves? You're the same person!"

-J.

I don't think you can really compare producers ignoring negative feedback from fans over a TV show and your congressmen ignoring their constituents wishes. We're their boss, not some fanboy who didn't like BarbieBorg character arc.

How do they know that?

A congressman getting a letter, phone call, or email have little ability to know if it actually comes from a registered voter in their district (who is likely to vote for that matter).

They know where I live because they send me enough crap in the mail. Not to mention that they can check a post mark for a physical letter, require a mailing address for emails sent through their websites, and can probably afford caller ID.

None of that necessarily proves a letter writer or caller is actually a registered voter in their district.

I'll throw a poll at you.

How many Americans think Congress is doing a good job.

Something like 20-25%.

But ask an American voter, how good a job they think their OWN CONGRESSMAN is doing.................

you routinely get results of something like 60-70% thinking THEIR congressman is doing a good job.

Why do you think that 90% of Congressman get reelected every two years?

I would assume that anyone running for office would understand the concept of representative government.

But I've been disappointed before.

This pic sums it up.

Not convenient to answer this, eh?

Universal healthcare isn't something that can be fixed with a simple piece of legislation, unlike border control and kicking illegals out of America. Americans want cheap healthcare of course, but they also want a workable plan for it and so far nobody has been able to come up with one that doesn't involve massive tax increases and gaining an ineffective healthcare system in the process.

The majority are willing to tolerate tax increases for a universal healthcare system, actually.

What about other issues? Foreign policy. Or climate change.

So the majority wants universal healthcare? Got a link for that?

As for climate change, I'd say the majority of Britons have their heads on straight...

Most Americans support

-The expansion of UN powers:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...tescanadara/356.php?nid=&id=&pnt=356&lb=brusc

-Legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
-A policy of engagement with Iran.
-Withdrawal from Iraq within a short timescale.
-A neutral position on the Israel/Palestine conflict.
-A reduction in defence spending.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...tescanadara/295.php?nid=&id=&pnt=295&lb=brusc

-Full Due-Process Rights for terrorist suspects

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...an_rightsra/228.php?nid=&id=&pnt=228&lb=brusc

-An increase in social spending

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/p...tatescanadara/85.php?nid=&id=&pnt=85&lb=brusc

-And universal healthcare

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/03/opinion_health_care.html

Hence, the American political establishment is spectacularly unrepresentative of the wishes of the public. It's funny that the political right is horrified by this when it comes to immigration, but find no problem with defying the people on any of the above.

Those links!

What's your problem?

Well, ABC has a similar poll. People support universal health care - as long as nothing else changes.

I'm sure it would drop even further for 'rationed health care' like the policies in the UK right now.

And of course, if you had to significantly raise taxes to pay for it....

So what it means is people like free stuff.

Big surprise there.

I'm for it as long as Michael Moore pays for it.