Why don't black folks trust the police?

This is the crux of the argument between the two sides on the gun issue. Most "gun-grabbers" as you call them - I prefer the term "sane", don't wish to take away your guns. They just want people to use sanity when using guns.

Scared? I'm 52 so who gives a shit if I die? Do I practice situational awareness? Yes I do, we all should. Kind of hard not to after years of training - it's only common sense. I don't work in a convenience store - I'm not a cop - I'm not a cab driver, so statistically I'm not in too much danger. There's a huge divide between being scared and being aware of dangers so you think tactically/logically and an even bigger divide to thinking everything is fine and we should all just sing Kumbaya and we'll get along fine. You can't see the difference? That explains much.

I want people to use sanity using guns too! Most gun owners do, if you can see past your preconceived stereotypes and find out for yourself. What most gun advocates do not want is to be rolled under one umbrella so that all guns are taken away from the responsible because of the few who cannot and should not own weapons.

Your neighbor just got drunk and ran over a baby. Would you entertain the thought of the authorities taking away your car? Or would you rather just punish the driver of that particular car? Just askin'

If you could see past your preconceived stereotypes and find out for yourself, you would know most people you consider "gun-grabbers" don't want to grab YOUR gun, but do want the offender punished.

And, to be honest, it wouldn't kill me if cars were outlawed.

Yeah, no.

In a decent size city with public transportation, you're lucky if the bus runs every 15 minutes. In the South or Midwest, you're stuck if you can't drive.

People got along for several millennium without cars. We'd adjust and adapt.

Autos are the reason we have been able to expand and move out. They are why we were able to spread out, take that away and you lose the ability to maintain our current way of living. You'll lose the ability to move products such as food, lose that and people die of starvation. Without autos, you could never be able to move enough food around to feed the current population.

Do you ever actually think about what you say, or do you just pop off at random?

Shouldn't be buying food produced more than 50 miles from your home anyway. At least, that is what some purport.

Yes, I do think about what I say. But, you definitely seem to pop off at random.

The fact that you think there are only two alternatives is the problem. Having lived all my life in major metropolitan areas (the places your ilk likes to label "High Crime Areas!!11!") I've got situational awareness. But I do not have, nor have I ever had, possession of a gun.

You're the one who can't see the difference.

Only if she's really hot or has big tits.

WTF? What if you live in a high elevation mountain village with no farms? Browse and graze on the sparse native vegetation?

My comment was only that I would not be upset if cars were outlawed.

If you would want to be upset about it, go ahead.

• unarmed =/= not a threat
• 18-year-old, 6'4", 292 lbs =/= a child/kid
• just committed a robbery when confront by a cop =/= a stable state-of-mind
• innocent individuals do not generally attack cops who are still in their car

Now, if there is enough evidence to reasonably conclude that the cop in question used excessive force or that the shooting was not justified, then by all means throw the book at him, send him up the river, etc....

But please, for chrissake, quit falling for the overwhelmingly emotional rhetoric:

• our "baby" was an angel, he'd never do anything wrong (robbery notwithstanding)
  
• he was going to college in the Fall (some of the biggest scumbags in the world have gone to college)
  
• he was targeted for being black (not proven)
  
• he never attacked that policeman (reports seem to indicate otherwise)
  
• he was surrendering (reports seem to indicate otherwise)

I applaud the effort, but you're wasting your time. The rhetoric and appeal to emotion isn't going to change. For example:

Nearly 18 years ago now. An abusive alcoholic with a long criminal history gets drunk and assaults his wife in a manner that would qualify for Assault in the 2nd. She manages to get away and call 911. When he discovers her on the phone, he gets more abusive, and then goes to the kitchen to get a knife. The telephone recording picks up him saying, "I'm glad you called. When the cops get here, I'm going to kill them all." He walks outside and stands in the street waiting on the police.

The first officer to respond turns the corner onto the block and sees the man in the street, but does not see the knife. The Officer stops a safe distance away from the man, draws his sidearm, and begins issuing orders. The man reveals the knife and begins walking towards the Police Officer. When he gets uncomfortably close, the Officer decides to retreat from his own car, and barricaded position, while continuing to issue commands. Eventually, the Officer is backed up against a dirt embankment and has no where else to retreat, and the man keeps approaching the officer yelling obscenities and telling the Officer that he's going to kill him. When the man crosses an imaginary line, about ten feet from the Officer, the Officer fires two rounds. Both hit center of mass. We would later find out that both rounds penetrated and destroyed the heart. The man is dead before he hits the ground, but no one knows that at the time. The Officer immediately calls for an Ambulance and begins first aid. The man is later pronounced dead at the local hospital.

You'll notice that I've said nothing about race yet. It happened to be a black man and a white cop. Within hours of dying, a candle light vigil had been organized by several local pastors. In death, this violent and abusive drunkard had become a pillar of the local community. He hadn't set foot in the building in ten years, but he was a heralded and honored Deacon at his church. Before the ABI had even arrived from Montgomery to start their independent investigation, two City Councilmen had issued inflammatory press releases noting that this was an attack on the black community as a whole. Just another example of racism run rampant. Within a week of the incident, Jesse Jackson had come to town and he publicly proclaimed the Officer to be a racist from the steps at City Hall.

I could tell you another story about a Police Lieutenant that walked into a convenience store in the middle of an armed robbery. If you'll forgive the hyperbole, that young man suddenly became a Heisman Trophy hopeful that read to orphans every Sunday after church. I could tell you another story about a small business owner that hit a Police Officer with a baseball bat and then cried racism when he was pepper sprayed. Racism exists. Police brutality/excessive force exists. But, there's so much bloviation and noise out there that I'm losing the ability to figure out what is legitimate and what is not.

Exactly, Elwood. Like I observed a while ago, the approved narrative for the Ferguson incident was set within the first couple of hours and no matter what facts come to light, that narrative will remain unchanged.

I'm curious, what state do you live in, other than "confusion?"

Lanzman...Elwood.....myself are RACISTS! We dared to point out the way things are versus how liberals want them to be. And Elwood
implied a double standard! Is he crazy? There's no such thing, ask a lib, they will set you straight.

Seriously I make more money than Elwood and there's nothing I can do about that, but if we didn't swap paychecks but I had to do his job.....
I still wouldn't do it. No fucking way, not in America and in this political climate. My son was trying to be a cop - he's a small white guy.
Being disqualified and having to eventually join The Army will no doubt save his life and/or serious injury and/or prison someday, no fucking doubt about it, and statistically I'm right.
Think about that for a minute or two.

There's no comparison. Neither has ever made a racist statement. You, OTOH, can't seem to stop yourself.

Really? Elwood just said that the black community shit kittens and had a candle-light vigil when a white cop killed a black suspect.
If I mentioned that you'd be on me like stink on shit. Deny you would? Whatever, you are an endless source of amusement.

Like Federal Farmer, you need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

There you go again! You kill me, you are awesome. Do you do kid's parties?

Only if the kids are more perceptive than you.

Except most people haven't actually selected a narrative. As evidence trickles out, likely culpability seems to fluctuate, and what I've observed is that most people are making conditional statements about the shooting. This is less true regarding subsequent police conduct.

This is true. But, Elwood, Lanz, Zombie, Forbin, ...et al, they only seem capable of hearing the shrill extremists. They seem incapable of having any sort of discussion, any exchange of ideas, with someone with whom they disagree - especially when guns are concerned.

Fuck that piece of shit Jesse Jackson, he spreads more hate and racism in the name of racism than any other person out there aside from Al Sharpton. Those two would claim racism as a motivating factor in any situation involving white/black violence. They've done more to separate blacks and whites than pretty much any other people in history.

The Good Righteous Reverends Al + Jesse would be out of a job if they didn't encourage racial distrust and division.
They are too old now to get honest good paying jobs - what choice do they have?

You might disagree with their activities (I often do), but I'd say you are mistaken if you think they see things the way you present it here. I think they'd be quite pleased to be out of their current jobs.

Sure, and Hugh Hefner wishes he'd never have to fuck again too.

Thank you for proving my point.

Wrong. My statement had only peripheral relationship to yours, not direct. Please read again. No where in my post did I say the immediate events reported were remotely true.