If that is the sort of the behaviour you advocate then I hope you fucking lose your job. I'm serious about this. What you are talking about is nothing to do with people supporting each other, working for a better world. It's about you and your fellow union members trying to extort more money out of the employer. Like I have said a couple of times in this thread, collective bargaining is a great thing and good luck to any employees that can manage it. Supporting violence, intimidation and threats against the fellow citizens of your state if they dare want to work? That's disgusting.
Elwood is a detective down in Alabama, he makes his living off of other people's taxes, Nope, my version doesn't rhyme either.
Well, I agree that violence shouldn't come into play. If the company can survive the loss of the workers (and stay within the legal obligations of contracts it has entered) then I have no problem. The original sitdown strike is another scenario. Those guys were on the receiving end of threats, violence, and even death. Sitting down on company property was outside the bounds of the law but so is sending the cops to beat the shit out of an organizer who comes into town. In those times Flint government and law enforcement was basically in the employ of General Motors. Basically, both sides were guilty of illegal and immoral activities. That doesn't make it "ok" for either side but that's just the way things happened. Unionization and collective bargaining should not be universally typecast to fit into the same mold as the events that happened on that one particular strike.
Furthermore I should note that Unions have legislated themselves into a situation where they become less and less relevant. They often fought (and succeeded) to create hourly, safety, and wage laws. Other effects are not necessarily laws but are universally expected. The biggest example is the 2 day weekend that is now the standard. Many safety regulations are a direct result of union influence. However, now that these things have become laws, or have simply become the norm from competing employers, the union is needed less and less. Essentially, a perfectly successful union will completely remove reasons for its existence. Even in right-to-work states where the union penetration is practically zero, the effects of unions in other areas and even other industries are definitely felt, and I feel, generally positively. I think it is important to understand unions for what they are: organizations run by real people who have positive ideals in mind. Like any organization run by real people, they do not always head toward goals that they claim to support and they do not always do the right thing. Just like anything else, this does not mean that they are all useless, evil, or harmful. These individuals all have self interest in mind, which is the basis of our capitalist society. At this point in time, due to safety, hourly, and wage laws that exist at the federal and state levels, the usefulness of a non-skilled trade union is questionable. As such, these unions are slipping and probably won't be around for long. In other areas, however, such as nursing, teaching, construction, and other skilled trades, these unions still have a place, and generally operate in a totally moral space where consenting individuals agree on contracts.
Indeed, hence my support for collective bargaining. However when Chris himself has made it clear that his union sees nothing wrong with using violence and intimidation towards other people they are definitely on the wrong side of the line.
Well, the statements of one individual who is known to be, sarcastic, cocky, 21, and male, do not necessarily reflect the policy of the union administration.
Regardless of whether they reflect the views of the administration, they do apparently reflect the views of a man on the picket line.
So to quickly recap: -The American airline industry: extensively unionized; largely insolvent -The American auto industry: extensively unionized; verging on bankruptcy
That's not why we walked off though. This contract has been nothing but concessions, including that VEBA deal because we understand how bad the situation is. But on the one thing that we want, work guarantees, they balk. Twenty days. Day and night. We've given them everything they want, we just want to know we'll have jobs in the next few years.
No I didn't. I made it clear that I, as an individual worker doesn't. Which in any case was just bluster. It's clearly illegal, and there's police everywhere. Hell, we can't even block anyone's entry/departure. Pickets are for show, and the (hopefully) rare occasion things go to hell.
And that's not something that can (or even should) be promised to anyone. I don't know that I'll even have a job next week.
It sure says a lot about how your workers value themselves that they seem to think without the car maker they will not to able to get work anywhere else.
Oh, so you do or don't see anything wrong with that? Have you made any kind of honest post in this thread?
It does, doesn't it? Too many people didn't go to school, and up here, the job market is shit. Which is why I'm back in school in a few months.
Being violent? Sure. Keeping people from crossing the lines? Not at all. Oh, and Jeff, this strike will help GM if it doesn't last too long. We were looking to get rid of old vehicles on the lot anyway. Just hope it doesn't last too long...
What right or justification do you have to prevent other people crossing the line if they want to work?
From what I've read, the transport drivers aren't crossing the picket lines, either...nor any other members of other unions. So if the UAW guys get fired, the cars still won't get delivered. Depending on what else is unionized, restrooms at the plants won't get cleaned, phones won't be fixed, etc. Firing everyone isn't necessarily the answer. This isn't just the UAW's fight.
I hereby declare that in my own self-interest, I am justified in relieving you of all of your material possessions. After all, I need for me to have them more than I need for you to have them.
[action=Uncle Albert]is sorely tempted to take an entry-level job at a GM plant, just to fight his way through a picket line and bludgeon anyone who lays a hand on him.[/action]
You can't, on all accounts. Though I would love to see your opinions (indeed all of you) after you worked there. I doubt you'd change, being an ideologue, but it'd be fascinating nonetheless.
