30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11B.

Remember kids, Corporations = Capitalism. Anyone who says different or wants to close the loopholes and stop the handouts are dirty hippy socialists.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/264481/20111209/30-major-u-s-corporations-paid-lobby.htm

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

See, this just proves corporate taxes are too high. They could only afford to spend $400K a day on lobbying efforts. Were their tax burdens lower, they could easily put that up to $1 million or more. Do you know how expensive it is to hire a limo driver in DC? It doesn't matter that all they're doing is taking Senator Kickback from his office to the airport so he can be flown to Hawaii for an important conference on new methods of snow removal, its still not cheap! Won't someone think of the limo drivers?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

1. Make lobbying illegal. Period.

2. Flat tax. Even a progressive flat tax would be a decent compromise. No loopholes, no intelligible laws. Just a percentage.

3. Tariffs that make it more expensive to locate their labor outside the country, but attractive to market their goods everywhere.

4. As little government meddling as possible in the market.

5. ???

6. Profit!!!

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Slight problem with this is that SCOTUS has already ruled that lobbying is protected speech, thus banning it would be a violation of the First Amendment rights of corporations.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It should be obvious that is self-serving corruption and tossed out.

Fine, make it illegal for the government to give money to lobbyists. That way they can beg all day but it won't matter.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It's enlightened Randian self-interest. Nothing to see here. Move along, plebe.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

1, 2 (and 6! ) I agree with.

3 and 4 I would need more clarification on. Change 'possible' to 'necessary' and I agree with 4.

5 is bullshit. Only a communist would agree with 5.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

We're talking about politics here, most people think the purpose of politics is to be self-serving.

That might work.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Little problem with making lobbying illegal there.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Well, the main thing to do is stop/reverse calling companies "people" and according them individual rights they have no business being accorded.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

How is it that corporate organizations have the rights of individuals, but seemingly so few of the liabilities?

Maybe sending an entire board of directors to prison would be a step?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

"I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Maybe the president can have a little talk with his buddy Jeff Immelt at G.E.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

I am surprised that there are those here who would seriously advocate denying citizens the right to petition their gubmint.

That is, after all, what you're advocating.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Freedom of speech.

I prefer the idea that tax breaks and loopholes count as "spending" when drafting the budget, so they have to be renewed, out in the open with the costs made clear, every year. It wouldn't solve everything overnight, but it'd be a good start.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Lobbying isn't the problem. The government still has to give in to their demands.

And the government won't give in to all those demands if they actually try to be accountable for a change.

Create an even playing field and most of the tax problems go away. No loopholes, and a progressive flat tax.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

If there were a flat tax instead of a byzantine tax code, there'd be little need for lobbyists to curry special tax breaks because your Congressmembers wouldn't be able to deliver them.

As long as you want politicians to be able to handle each case differently, to come up with special exceptions or penalties for anyone, you have the exact opposite of the rule of law...and that opens the door to massive corruption.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Why not roll lobbying back to what it was in the beginning (and from which it derives its name), viz., an individual lurking in the lobby of a legislature to accost his Congresscritter and ask for a favor?

Disband lobbying organizations, take the big bucks out of the equation, let every CEO spend his time in Washington shifting his feet on the cold marble floor instead of in the executive suite with his feet on the desk talking football and surfing for porn all day.

One would think that would appeal to those of you who cherish other 19th century values.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening though.

Crony capitalism should be illegal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening either.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Bribing politicians gets the best return on investment in the world. America has a huge problem with crony capitalism where corporate elites engage in economic rent seeking instead of trying to create value added. I'm a capitalist and I want to help save capitalism but crony capitalism is not classical capitalism because it lakes accountability and market discipline. If we want to save capitalism we have to end the cronyism and rent seeking. The too big to fail getting bailouts, the endless government gravy train for defense contractors, the massive (truly massive) ag subsidies which almost entirely go to just five big companies, the political corruption which comes from legalized bribery, the preferential treatment politically connected entities get in exchange for their bribes.

In 1997 the US rightly criticized Asian and Latin American countries for the cronyism and lack of free market discipline which caused the economic crisis in those countries but now we're sick with the same illness and nothing short of outlawing bribery of politicians will cure it. Until then the rent seeking will continue because why actually compete in the market when for just a few million you can get a permanent rent seeking position enshrined in law?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Oh, and before anyone asks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Yeah, and that was the most corrupt and politically motivated ruling since Dread Scott. Wait, Bush vs Gore was more obviously corrupt and politically motivated but Citizens United (which a horrible 1984-esque euphemism that name was) was clearly in the top 2-3.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

That won't do it. As long as there is influence, there will be influence-peddling.

Aside from that, I don't see how one could ban lobbying for the Constitutional reasons raised above.

The solution is to force Congress to come up with a uniform set of rules and taxes and therefore to have less influence to peddle. When the laws are tailored to individuals (or to individual corporations), the kind of rent-seeking Oerdin mentions will go on and on.

If you believe that Congress actually achieves real benefit for the people and the country by having such arbitrary power, you have to ask yourself is it worth the corruption it invites.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Kill lobbyists.

Paralyze the filth with some fear.

*Scary stare*

Is he joking? Is he? Eh?

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

So your solution is to either hobble Congress in terms of what it can do legally, thereby inviting more, not less, bribery, or disband Congress altogether and just let the lobbyists run the country.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

Kill the lobbyists, when the cops come, kill them, when the SWAT team comes, kills as many of them as will go down before you do.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

The only way I'd "hobble" Congress is require them to make simpler, transparent tax codes and regulations. If you don't want to hobble them that way, then expect the 20,000 page tax code with all the gifts and giveaways (i.e., corruption) that come packaged therein. In other words, enjoy the status quo.

If the tax and regulatory code is simple and uniform, there is no advantage to be gained by lobbying Congress. Just as with individuals, the tax code can't be manipulated if it's flat. The regulatory code can't be manipulated if there's a standard that all must adhere to.

Lobbyists are the symptoms of the problem, not the problem: a government that is so complex that it can no longer be considered transparent to the voters.

Re: 30 Multinationals who paid more for Lobbyists than they did Taxes. Made $164B got $11

It's always enlightening to find that when influence is sold, people/corporations will buy it.